Sussex MSc in Financial Risk and Investment Analysis

[Carol Alexander]

Hi.

I have designed this new degree -- which is really different from the usual stuff one gets in the UK and is specifically designed to get an FT rankings place for Sussex (I have returned to head up the Business and Management Department of the Business School, at last! So glad to be back!).

We are targeting about 20 top-class students for places on this degree, mostly from the UK and Europe, who are likely to become high earners within 3 years of graduation. Value-for-money is also important in the rankings, so our fees will be really low. When you add on scholarships for people with a first class UK degree, this can bring the net fee as low as £4,500! [Its not a money spinner for the University (unlike so many degrees nowadays) it is a strategic MSc.]

We are really pulling all the stops out for this, with an all star cast of faculty, fabulous new building etc. HOWEVER, the Financial Riskk and Investment Analysis degree is so different from anything before that the University took ****** ages to validate it. So, having only just got the nod from the admin I now have less than 2 month to find 20 lucky students with first degrees in Maths, Physics, Engineering (maybe Finance or Economics, if they have done a good amount of quant) to start studying this September.

Please help spread the word. This is a really fabulous opportunity for some lucky students. The link page is www.sussex.ac.uk/bam/fria

Many thanks, Carol Alexander

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Carol Alexander
I'd like to hear more about your new program, and how it differs from other UK quant master programs.

 

[crusaders]

I am an international student who grad from one of the top Uni in uk. Initially, i was really keen to apply for Msc Finance programs in UK - LSE, oxford, imperial. However, after i've spoken to a few alumni from those programs, i set my mind towards MFE programs in US. Why? It is impossible to find a job after the program in UK. UK has strict visa policies. Besides, unlike schools in US, UK schools don't place any emphasis on placement Students will pay 100k for schools that are in the 'ivy league' or for schools that has a stellar placement rate. Sadly, Sussex doesn't fall into either of the categories. Money is rarely an issue for international students( generally). To put it bluntly, even if the school fees were to be lowered by half, the program would not attract high caliber students.

Unless the school make effort to place students in the industry, I believe most students will still spend 10x the tuition fees to apply to schools such as Oxford & LSE.

 

[Carol Alexander]

Hiya,
It is true that employability rates in the City of London for international students, especially those from Asia, are not great for many quant finance MSc degrees in the UK. However, I am not sure the situation is any better in the US, is it? Is it not the case that a green card is more difficult to obtain than a UK working visa?

This aside, I’d be happy to tell you (and Andy) more about what it is that differentiates the new Financial Risk and Investment Analysis MSc at Sussex from other UK quant finance programmes. Here are 5 reasons why employability should be far better than on other programmes:

1. The degree is designed in such a way to target the FT pre-experience ranking criteria where 40% of the weight is given to employability related statistics (placement success, % employment 3 months after graduation, career status and average salary 3 years after graduation) – http://rankings.ft.com/pdf/key/masters-in-finance-pre-experience-2012.pdf

2. We are being highly selective on entry: in the few weeks that I have processed applications so far almost 90% have been rejected and I only intend to admit 25 students this year. In future years we may have as many as 50 students but no more – instead, as applications grow we will just increase rejection rates

3. The course is difficult and will suit only the high-performing students that are likely to get good jobs – and we will choose our PhDs from this pool (and from another new degree which should come online for 2015 entry, specialising in Energy and Environmental Finance)

4. The faculty is a fabulous line up, including many people with plenty of working experience in the City. I have three ex-Goldman Sachs employees, the ex CIO of Citigroup, the ex Head of Risk Management at Barclays, Mitsubishi …. and of course myself. I hired another 3 new faculty yesterday for this degree and will get their details online soon but for now see http://www.sussex.ac.uk/bam/pgstudy/fria/faculty

5. The course is intense and finishes end of June. Most other degrees are a full one year so those students miss out on the summer internships. Students will be helped to apply for these soon after they start as the application cycle starts in October.

 

[crusaders]

Hi Carol,

After reading what you wrote, I have a reason to believe that your course may actually be better than those courses LSE/Imperial. Imperial enrols 100+ of applicants and thus students rarely have any direct, personal contact time with professors. I ahve a few questions:

1) Does the course have a career service team that is specially catered for the needs for postgrad students?

2) Will the school proactively help students find jobs, as in the case in most US schools? I think there's a big diff in the meaning of 'placement' in US & UK. In US, career service team proactively sends out students' resume and help place students, literally, into the industry. In UK, they send out links for students to apply for jobs, and I don't see the meaning in doing so since I can find out myself what the job openings are.

Brauch College is a gd example. The school builds its reputation by having a top-notch career service team. To be honest, factors such as quality of profs, course work given, structure of course.. etc.. are really irrelevant. Again, students either join schools that are 'branded' ( no matter what placement rates those schools have, low or high) or join schools that are 'unreputable' (but have a high placement rates, for exmp Brauch). No students will choose one that lies in the middle of the group, unless as a last resort..

I think faculty comparison is irrelevant because there are definitely equally,if not more, experienced Profs in Oxford/LSE/imperial.

Can you tell us more on how the school will attempt to ensure a good placement rate? What will the school do differently from the others in terms of career service?

 

[Carol Alexander]

1) No, we have three full-time placement officer positions for the School -- two professional, one academic, plus we also outsource placement finding. But so far this has been targeted at our undergraduate degrees. This year, for example, we are placing about 90 students for an average of 48 weeks each, with an average salary £16K. I do plan to use the placement expertise we have in the School for the FRIA degree, but there will be no dedicated staff just for FRIA

2) Yes. That is why we are keeping it small, and accepting only the best students that we think we can find jobs for. The rejection rate is very high on this degree, not like LSE or Imperial -- their degrees are not the same sort of strategic design as FRIA.

 

[Edward Zhou]

If more career data of international students could be included, it would be very nice.

 

[Carol Alexander]

The degree doesn't start until September this year so no data are available as yet.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Do the students learn how to program?

 

[Carol Alexander]

No, not in C++. This isn't a FE degree. Students will use Excel, Matlab ............ and most modules also have Rotman trader built into some seminars that involve trading around the theoretical material they learn in lectures. We plan to send a team to the competition.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

No, not in C++. This isn't a FE degree. Students will use Excel, Matlab ............ and most modules also have Rotman trader built into some seminars that involve trading around the theoretical material they learn in lectures. We plan to send a team to the competition.

My question was not specifically geared to C++. More generally, computational and algorithmic savvy if they wish to develop their own systems/algos. Or will quants/IT develop the s/w for them down the road?

 

[Carol Alexander]

Still, the emphasis isn't on the systems/algorithms side of the work - more on the finance theory, understanding how trading really works, deep understanding of risk models, portfolio theory, performance assessment, commodities, alternatives, that sort of thing.

 

[asdf_computer]

If students didn't have any computational programing before, is it still possibel to do this master? I mean will there be lessons to show basics and how to do deal with matlab for example? Or do you expect your students to be at a high computational level?
What else do you expect from students with an undergraduate diploma in finance and how much quantitative does it have to be?

 

[Yike Lu]

No, not in C++. This isn't a FE degree. Students will use Excel, Matlab ............ and most modules also have Rotman trader built into some seminars that involve trading around the theoretical material they learn in lectures. We plan to send a team to the competition.

See you in Toronto.

 

[bubblegum]

No, not in C++. This isn't a FE degree. Students will use Excel, Matlab ............ and most modules also have Rotman trader built into some seminars that involve trading around the theoretical material they learn in lectures. We plan to send a team to the competition.

No C++ I find strange, its probably the most important factor in getting a job as a quant, after all most quant jobs are 90% C++ coding and 10% mathematics. Matlab is not really used in the industry unless its on the buy-side, and thats not really quant and people would be expected to be able to make excel talk with C++.

just my 2 cents.

EDIT: forget what I just said, I understand now its not taught in the mathematics department but the business school, so I guess its not aimed at people who want to be quants but more investment analysts in the financial services.

 

[Kelvin Chui]

To put it bluntly, even if the school fees were to be lowered by half, the program would not attract high caliber students.

Unless the school make effort to place students in the industry, I believe most students will still spend 10x the tuition fees to apply to schools such as Oxford & LSE.

Sad but true. Most employers in this field look for 'top tier', 'world class' or 'Ivy league' universities graduates. If the name of the university does not sell, it's really hard for the graduates to compete. The quality of the programme is less relevant.

 

[Michael Coulon]

I've recently joined as a new faculty member at Sussex (having moved over from a position at Princeton's ORFE Dept in the US) and wanted to jump into this conversation with a few thoughts. I will be teaching for the new FRIA MSc and quite involved in its growth and development over the coming years.

First of all, since joining I've been very impressed with all of Carol's plans for our new finance group here, which include many aspects. The new masters is a big focus, but there will also be a very active quantitative finance research center, significant interaction with industry, an international network of strategic partnerships (both with academics and practitioners), and new opportunities for undergrads and PhDs as well. The rapid expansion plans here are very exciting and I honestly believe we can make Sussex one of the very top few places for quantitative finance at least in the UK if not globally.

Getting back to the MSc itself, I do think it will be able to compete with other similar offerings in the UK, partly because of the somewhat different focus (discussed above) which makes it stand out from traditional 'financial math' degrees, and secondly because we have enough people here to help with placement in the early years as the reputation builds. Many of the faculty members here have a lot of industry experience and contacts, and I expect we will see quite a number of guest lectures, seminar talks, etc, from practitioners as well.

While I acknowledge your point Kelvin about the 'top tier' universities with the big names, I don't think it is unrealistic to develop a niche expertise and reputation in something like quantitative finance at a 'second tier' university. If you look to the US for examples, then places like Baruch College (mentioned above by crusaders) and Rutgers (near Princeton) have successfully developed highly respected masters programs without the big name university behind. I'd argue that even CMU (Carnegie Mellon) is not well known internationally as a university, but very well known for quantitative finance (and also for computer science). So, my point is that it can be done! Once employers get to know specific programs, those can get added to their 'target list' irrespective of the university's name.

Finally, I'll just finish by saying that this year could be an excellent opportunity for anyone still looking at the option of doing a masters (or making last minute changes of plans). Of course, it's very late, but we are still accepting applications to start next month (mid-Sept), and since it's our first year (and course validation happened rather late), the class will be quite small. This should equate to excellent value for money for the students, as it makes it even easier to have close interaction with faculty, get the most out of courses, as well as more direct help with career placement. Ten years ago I had a similar situation at Princeton, joining a very small group of about ten students in one of the first few years of their MFin program, so I speak from experience that it's a nice opportunity!

Happy to answer any questions (either like this or via email) if anyone is thinking about it but unsure.

 

[Kelvin Chui]

How about international students? Also, do financial mathematics students enjoy the same kind of placement/career service?

I have a BSc in physics and a CFA level 3 candidates in 2014. I am planning to do an MFE or even a PhD in UK in 2014.

 

[Sul]

Dear @Carol Alexander

Is this new degree open to students who, say have an MSc in Modelling and Risk Management?

Thanks

Sul

 

[Michael Coulon]

Thanks for the questions, Kelvin and Sul. First of all I think you both sound like good candidates for the FRIA degree. BSc in Physics is excellent as preparation, and already having CFA is a nice bonus. As for MSc in Modelling and Risk Management, I don't know the details of that degree's content of course... sounds like there could some overlap with the material here, but presumably also differences in perspective and quite a bit of new material too. To find out more about the course details, I'd suggest looking through our website some more: www.sussex.ac.uk/bam/fria

To get back to your other questions, Kelvin, we certainly welcome international students, and in our first class it looks like we will have quite a bit of diversity of students. Since you mentioned PhDs, we also plan to look for strong PhD candidates from our own FRIA MSc students, so it could serve as a transition to PhD. (In the UK, I think it may be tricky to get into PhD programs with only a BSc since research starts day one.) As for career placements, if you are asking about the MSc in Financial Mathematics, I cannot provide any information because that one is based in the mathematics department. Students on the MSc in Financial Risk and Investment Analysis (FRIA) in our department will be working with 2 full-time dedicated placement officers as soon as they arrive, to direct their CV and internship applications to sectors where jobs are most buoyant and faculty contacts are rich. Our aim is for the 100% success among the first cohort of students that are seeking placements in the industry.

Hope that helps and let us know if you have any follow-ups.