COMPARE UCLA MFE vs UCB MFE vs Baruch MFE

[Caoxu]

I wish somebody can give me the advice to pick between these three programs. After graduation, I wish to work in the U.S. for several years and then go back to China to work there in the long run. So my choice of job location in the U.S. is flexible.

UCLA: Small class size, Good placement rate, in Anderson Bussiness school. but the program is still young.

Baruch: wonderful job service and placement rate; in NYC; the tuition is low; Dan is helpful and has a lot of network; but the brand is not so strong, especially in China.

UCB: in Haas, a prestigious bussiness school; great placement rate and strong alumni, but the job opportunities in the west coast may be fewer than those in the east coast.

Considering my future career plan, which program is better? Thank you for any advice.

 

[IanXiao]

Vote for UCB, considering the reputation, education quality both in USA and China

 

[AshokKumarMuthusamy]

UCB: in Haas, a prestigious bussiness school; great placement rate and strong alumni, but the job opportunities in the west coast may be fewer than those in the east coast.

Most of the UCB Graduates obtain job in east coast.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

It's clear this is another discussion derailed by the few members who contributed nothing to the discussion but abuse it. I expected criticism of any program to be discussed in a more constructive manner but sadly it did not happen while I gave everyone their say in the matter.
Let's stay on topic.

 

[Caoxu]

Hi Advait:

At first, I want to thank you to share your opinion and join this discussion. But I believe that all these three programs I mentioned are top MFE programs in the U.S. and they have earned their reputation through long-term high quality alumni and great placement rate. They all have their unique advantages and features. What I ( maybe the entire Compare panel) wish to discuss and ask advice about is which program fits me better, based on my own career plan. No matter which porgram I choose finally, that must be because I think that program matches my background. I will never doubt about the quality of the other two. So I think it is more helpful if you can relate each program's features with my career plan, instead of just attacking one program.

Besides, in your discussion about Baruch's admission process, it seems that you are indicating a Chinese student can easily pass the interview by only browsing some forums and preparing the answers to some specific questions. I agree that there are a lot of Chinese students in most MFE programs, but I believe they all earn the admission by hard working and solid knowledge. Firstly, as a U.S. top program, there is no reason to give priority to Chinese student. Secondly, at least according to my interview experience, different applicants' technical interviews are done by different professors and they all have different questions. The questions won't be hard but the knowledge you have should be broad. Thirdly, if Baruch's admission process was really so bad as you described, their placement rate should drop many years ago, but obviously this is not the case.

At last, I am wondering if you can really read Chinese and know in which Chinese forum you can find the interview questions, why did not you prepare those interview questions and pass their interview? Maybe you feel that you are unfairly treated during the application, but please respect other applicants' effort.

 

[Lyosha]

Coaxu, my post was removed, but I'll offer my advice one more time:

You cannot go wrong with Baruch or UCB. UCLA seems to be a good program, but a notch lower than those two. So you really have to pick between Baruch and UCB (well, UCLA isn't bad by any means, but the other two are just better...).

That having been said, both Baruch and UCB offer top notch education. The differences are that:
a) Berkeley has a bigger name
and
b) Berkeley has no access to the NYC-area "internal job market" which (apparently... according to Dan) places 86% of Baruch MFE students, so they do not have the same quality of placement in NYC.
and
c) Berkeley has MUCH nicer weather!

So do you want a bigger name (and the weather!!!) or more job opportunities in NYC? That is your decision.

One other angle you are not looking at is that your job also goes on your resume. Will your potential employer in China 5 years from now care more about where you went to college or that you worked at Morgan Stanley for 5 years versus Duff and Phelps for five years (hypothetically speaking)? I don't know the answer to that.

 

[red entor]

Berkeley's full-time job placement in NY looks good. That, to me, suggests that anyone from Berkeley who seeks opportunities in NY would actually make it.


Caoxu: I personally think Berkeley is the best choice here for your case. It looks like it's the most respected program, and Berkeley is famous worldwide, specially in Asia, where you're likely going to work after a few years from graduating from the program. I'd put UCLA as you next best bet.

 

[Lyosha]

Berkeley's full-time job placement in NY looks good. That, to me, suggests that anyone from Berkeley who seeks opportunities in NY would actually make it.


Caoxu: I personally think Berkeley is the best choice here for your case. It looks like it's the most respected program, and Berkeley is famous worldwide, specially in Asia, where you're likely going to work after a few years from graduating from the program. I'd put UCLA as you next best bet.

I don't see why you would dislike what I said. Especially when you do not contradict it, only repeat what I already said.

Yes, Berkeley is on the IB recruitment carousel, along with Stevens (see post above), Fordham, SUNY Buffalo, and university of bumblewherever. IBs recruit from as many places as they physically have time to go.

Does this mean you have the same opportunities? As university of bumblewherever, yes. As Baruch? No. Location, location, location. Not useful in just real estate! https://www.quantnet.com/threads/how-to-get-your-dream-quant-internship.10053/

That having been said, Baruch couldn't place anyone in California if it tried. No connections, no ties, and in today's age overflowing with local talent, having to fly someone in from the other side of America is just massively unattractive.

 

[red entor]

Lyosha: So, based on your logic, only schools that are in or within NY have the best opportunities. If that's the case, then even NY schools are better than the likes of Wharton, Harvard or Stanford, for none of them is in NY.

Sorry, but I cannot accept that. Besides, NY isn't the only place where the OP can land a job. He can go back to China where he's from, and where the Berkeley brand name will offer him more opportunities than graduating from say, Baruch, which isn't even known in the US. Perhaps if Caoxu was an American and he strongly emphasized that he'll only work in NY, your suggestion (and insistence) would have been more sensible. But Caoxu has gotten into a more prestigious school, which has better employment record, and with graduates receiving higher salary rates, and you're telling him not to go there because it isn't in NY. Sorry to say this, but your reasons were not strong.

Let me be more specific - there is pretty much Zero chance that someone from Berkeley or UCLA could land my job or internship. Or > 50% of the interviews I had. They do not have access.

Well, who cares? Berkeley MFE's employment statistics are still better than all of those NY schools'.

 

[Lyosha]

Sorry, but I cannot accept that.

Your problem

NY schools are better than the likes of Wharton, Harvard or Stanford

Apples to oranges. If I want a programmer (or someone to go into IBanking), I go recruit at Stanford, Wharton or Harvard. If I want a quant, I don't. As a matter of fact all the quants I know that went to undergrad in UPenn or Harvard then received quant-specific graduate degrees elsewhere (i.e. Baruch).

 

[Joy Pathak]

Just FYI I recently left my position at a BB/large investment bank. Before I left we started the interview process so that I could train the person. During the interview process we specifically made sure we picked people from NY programs. We had applicants from Carnegie Pittsburgh and we rejected those resumes. We interviewed from their NYC campus. Princeton MFin was the farthest we were ready to interview. We interviewed Columbia MFE, NYU, Princeton and Baruch MFE's. We narrowed down to a Baruch graduate.

The Berkeley program is pretty good. I had a coworker from their MFE. I was told that it is a great program from people with experience. They are connected to the business school which makes their students very marketable and they have a lot of connections with the business school career service I believe. Everyone I have ever met from that program is much older than average fresh MFE with a lot of experience in the industry. But it's a bit strange. People will come out to SF from NYC any day to get Berkeley students.
I have nothing bad to say. There are companies that will go out to recruit out there. If you are someone who is 100% confident you will get a job during the normal recruiting season and with a bunch of experience, berkeley will be a great fit. Outside of the regular recruiting schedule if you are unemployed then it will be hard to find something out there and you might have to settle for something that might not be that good.

Baruch will be good if you don't have much experience, are new to the industry, or are not really sure what in finance you want to do. Obviously you can see, baruch alumni take care of baruch students. There are a few banks that include baruch MFE as a target program now (MS, JPM, etc). Baruch placements work all year. They place people in the normal recruiting schedule and are constantly approached for jobs that pop up all over from people quitting or additional requirements which is a HUGE benefit compared to other schools. Plus NYC is the greatest city in the world. Baruch alumni have a strong bond to the program obviously as you can see and we recruit in our program heavily. To give an example, me and Lyosha both work in front office in Trading. One at a bank and other at a hedge fund. We recruit in our program heavily.


I wouldn't bother with UCLA when you have those two school as options also.

 

[red entor]

If I want a quant, I don't.

Not even someone from say, MIT or Princeton?
Neither school is in NY.





Look, Lyosha. I'm not saying Baruch isn't a good program. I think it is.

To be honest about it, I have not heard about Baruch up until it was ranked ahead of the likes of Berkeley, Columbia and NYU - three universities with world-class business school. So, Baruch may be is a fantastic school for MFE after all, that despite the ranking I've seen wasn't conclusive (and, perhaps, credible to the sight of the vast majority). Still, using certain measures and standards to rank academic programs, Baruch has shown that - for MFE - it can head-to-head with the giant names in academia, particularly, in this area - Financial Engineering. But let's face it. It isn't ALWAYS the best program for everyone.

The OP is Chinese. He'll most likely - and definitely - go back to China after a few months from graduation where he will continue to work. In China, and all parts of Asia (including the Middle East), a Baruch degree would not mean anything other than -- another American degree. In Asia, Berkeley is a huge name, specially is East Asia which China is a part of. In Asia, Berkeley has a huge and powerful network. It has a rich and thriving alumni network in Shanghai, Guangzhou, Beijing, Shenzhen, Nanjing, Xiamen, Hong Kong, and even in Macau and Taipei. Caoxu - the thread starter - would most likely be heading back to one of those places, and when he's there, he's automatically connected to people who are in high seats, something that a school like Baruch could hardly provide. Yet, here you are pushing a program that has lesser benefits to Caoxu. You keep coming back to your NY placement arguments. Yet the statistics that both schools provide show that Berkeley has got the edge - both for internships and full-time job placements, including salary scale of graduates. I don't know what you're up to, but it's clear to me that Berkeley is the superior program between the two -- better brand name, better networking, housed in a business school, better student quality, better employment statistic records, higher salary rates of graduates, etc..

 

[Lyosha]

Not even someone from say, MIT or Princeton?

Princeton is a train ride away. MIT has an MFE program... I've met MIT Ph.D. non-MFEs that are quants, but not yet an undergrad. Except once again ones that went to MFE programs post-MIT.

Just sayin'... nature of the field.

It isn't ALWAYS the best program for everyone.

Correct. I've outlined scenarios in which it is and is not better in this case

To rehash - it will be better if you are deadset on NYC. But if you are fine with a worse NYC experience (just the generic one that every other college in the USA gets), but much better experience everywhere else when looking for your first job, or want a school with more name recognition, by all means, Berkeley fits your bill better. I think this is reasonable and supported by both anecdotal information of alumni, as well as hard published numbers...