Undergrad education advice B.Com vs B.Sc

[LongShort]

Good evening everyone,

I am currently a high school student who plans on going to McGill University in the fall. I will be registered in the BCom program where I hope to double major in finance and math. Because McGill allows BCom students to also pursue a major in math or statistics , while doing electives in computer science, I am wondering if this background would be sufficient for entry into a MFE program.

Personally I would prefer to complete a BCom as opposed to a B.Sc for the following reasons:
- I would be able to pursue finance jobs straight out of undergrad as I may not have the ressources to immediately pursue grad school. (Not coming from a wealthy background)
- B.Sc grads cannot double major in finance and math while BCom grads can

To sum my long post up, would having a math major and a BCom degree put me at a significant disadvantage when applying to MFE programs as opposed to someone who had completed a B.Sc.

( I have also completed all the grade 12 math courses, can code in C (including objective-c) and am learning VBA. Therefore transferring to something "mathy" in my first year should be very possible)

Thank you all for your time,
CE

 

[BusyLearnin]

That's fantastic. You sound like you're on the right path to get what you want.

Disclaimer: The shit that follows is all just my opinion. Feel free to message me if you have more questions, but you should really be speaking with advisers to hammer out some of the finer details.

I don't think a BCom would completely screw your chances of getting into an MFE program if you double major in math and finance - I honestly don't think it would hurt your chances at all. McGill is a good school, so as long as your transcript has enough of the core math classes they're looking for, I think you'd be alright. However, you should reach out to the institutions you're thinking of applying to and asking; they'll know better than any forum what their standards are for accepting applicants.

Personally, I think which program you should choose depends where you want to go after completing an MFE program. If you goal is to complete an MFE program and then get a good job (particularly if you may need to work in the interim), I think a BCom is a better bet. Some of the more application-focused schools appreciate having knowledge of finance as well as math. However, if you're keen on academia, then I would switch to a BSc. The more academically oriented programs don't care if you know anything about finance- to them all that matters is your skill and knowledge in mathematics.

After a quick look, I see a few key differences between the two programs:

1. Duration: A double major will take longer and require more classes overall. However, if you were considering a double major BSc (like math and CS), this shouldn't influence your decision.
2. Specialization: A BSc has 54 credits as opposed to a Math major with a BCom which has 39. This is roughly 5 more courses. Granted if you take the "real" linear algebra and calc 1 courses (as opposed to their slightly easier mgmt equivalent) that's only 3 and the difference can easily be made up with electives.
3. Effort: Transferring can be difficult - McGill may ask you to wait until you've finished your first year until doing this. You should talk to an adviser right away to look more into the process to see if this is even feasible with your goals.
4. Research: Research looks amazing on your resume when you apply to MFE programs (especially if you manage to get published while completing your undergrad). I'm not 100% sure what the funding is like at McGill for Math, but I'd guess that it's NSERC. You may have to be a Science student to get funded. I have no idea, but it's something you should definitely consider looking into because "funded research" during your summers will help your applications (so will finance internships though, so up to you). If you go this route, there are a few guys in the Math department who do math finance related research. Vadim di Pietro is in the finance department (he's a UofT MMF grad) and does research with a slightly more math-y bent.
5. Employ-ability: Finance is definitely better for this in my opinion.

As a heads up, you should absolutely choose your electives and complementary courses around LOTS of probability theory and statistics, ODE's, PDE's, and Numerical Analysis. If I were you, I would even consider looking into a BCom statistics major, as then you could take a course on stochastic processes (really important) and wouldn't have to worry about algebra (difficult but neat field with no application to math finance that I'm aware of), although then you wouldn't be able to study PDE's or numerical analysis which are both also very important.

As a side note, you should really look into the Honours Investment Management program if you're this keen. Every single person I know in that program graduated with a job in investment banking or working for a hedge fund. It's tough, but rewarding if you're motivated and willing to make the sacrifices (plus Ken is a dream). That would probably set you up well in the interim if funding is an issue, but I don't think the program elaborates on enough math to set you up well for an MFE.

Cheers and good luck!

 

[LongShort]

Thank you for all the advice it is much appreciated!

At the moment entering the workforce seems more appealing then academia so I will try to get some internships while at McGill. I will also definitely look into improving my stats knowledge! (Stochastic calc seems super interesting!)

You are definitely right about speaking to an advisor, when I am registering for classes I will be sure to enquire more deeply. As for now, I will take the 3 "real" math courses in my first year that should give me some flexibility later on.

Thanks again,
CE

 

[Yike Lu]

This feels like a very Canada specific question btw. Not sure an American hiring manager would even know the difference between BCom and BSc. Higher chance of an American MFE director knowing though, as it's more relevant.

 

[pingu]

WTF is a BCom?

 

[LongShort]

B.Com=Bachelor of Commerce. I may be worrying for nothing but usually B.Coms are quite light in the advanced math department. This specific B.Com would not be at all, but I would not want it to be confused with a less technical degree.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

A Bachelor of Commerce (abbreviated B.Com. or B.Comm.) is an undergraduate degree in business (or commerce) and related subjects, usually given in India and other commonwealth countries.

Not quantitative in the quant sense.

 

[LongShort]

Exactly, but as McGill let's you do a math major (offered by the faculty of science) with a B.Com I would hope that it would provide sufficient preparation for a MFE program.

 

[pingu]

B.Com=Bachelor of Commerce. I may be worrying for nothing but usually B.Coms are quite light in the advanced math department. This specific B.Com would not be at all, but I would not want it to be confused with a less technical degree.

In the US job market, a resume with a BCom will probably end up in the trash can really fast.

 

[LongShort]

I wonder why, as I would have done essentially the same coursework as a B.Sc student. As long as I could eventually get into a good MFE do you believe they would forgive the B.Com?

 

[pingu]

I wonder why, as I would have done essentially the same coursework as a B.Sc student. As long as I could eventually get into a good MFE do you believe they would forgive the B.Com?

Let's say I'm an HR person and I have never heard of BCom (for whatever reason). If I receive 100 resumes, I might have some automatic filtering looking for BS, MS, PhD. Do you see BCom in that list? boom goes the dynamite.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

I wonder why, as I would have done essentially the same coursework as a B.Sc student. As long as I could eventually get into a good MFE do you believe they would forgive the B.Com?

What kind of maths in BComm degree?

 

[LongShort]

Usually not much. However in this one it would cover everything from advanced calculus to statistics to differential equations.
Major Concentration Mathematics for Management Students (39 credits) | 2012–2013 Programs, Courses and University Regulations - McGill University

I would have the same course load as a BA in math student and a bit less than a B.Sc in math student.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Usually not much. However in this one it would cover everything from advanced calculus to statistics to differential equations.
Major Concentration Mathematics for Management Students (39 credits) | 2012–2013 Programs, Courses and University Regulations - McGill University

I would have the same course load as a BA in math student and a bit less than a B.Sc in math student.

This is not suitable, unfortunately. It's 1st year maths undergraduate.

Have a look at this maths syllabus.

Moderatorship in mathematics - Undergraduate : School of Mathematics : Trinity College Dublin, The University of Dublin, Ireland

To take an example: Riemann integral is what you learn in school (sorry); in maths you learn Lebesgue.

 

[LongShort]

I see, that seems far more advanced! Even though the B.Com is far from ideal would it be enough for entrance into a MFE program where I could learn more advanced mathematics?

Alternatively, what are your thoughts on this math syllabus.
Honours Applied Mathematics (60 credits) | eCalendar - McGill University
This represents one of the most advanced math programs the university offers. I have the option of potentially transferring into it.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

I see, that seems far more advanced! Even though the B.Com is far from ideal would it be enough for entrance into a MFE program where I could learn more advanced mathematics?

Alternatively, what are your thoughts on this math syllabus.
Honours Applied Mathematics (60 credits) | eCalendar - McGill University
This represents one of the most advanced math programs the university offers. I have the option of potentially transferring into it.

It's the perception issue here, as @pingu has stated.

something "mathy" in my first year should be very possible
You make it sound like taking cod liver oil or something. :D

can code in C (including objective-c) and am learning VBA.
C is very good skill.

 

[bigbadwolf]

To take an example: Riemann integral is what you learn in school (sorry); in maths you learn Lebesgue.

In A level math they teach integration as the inverse of differentiation. The theoretical development of the Riemann integral on the basis of careful definitions and then proving it is the inverse of the derivative usually is presented in a first course in undergraduate analysis. The Lebesgue integral comes later, after a first course in real analysis and after gaining some more mathematical maturity.

 

[Niq W.]

This is not suitable, unfortunately. It's 1st year maths undergraduate.

Have a look at this maths syllabus.

Moderatorship in mathematics - Undergraduate : School of Mathematics : Trinity College Dublin, The University of Dublin, Ireland

To take an example: Riemann integral is what you learn in school (sorry); in maths you learn Lebesgue.

I don't know why you are saying this amount of math is not suitable for admissions to MFE. The top programs pretty much all have the same prerequisites:

• Calculus (two semesters)
• Probability (one semester)
• Linear Algebra (one semester)
• C++ (one semester or certificate)
• Finance (one semester, or relevant work experience)

If you have a high GPA, high GRE, and relevant internship experience and a true desire to get into MFE for the right reasons you can get accepted with these prerequisites plus a few extra courses, while that program he mentioned (Major Concentration Mathematics for Management Students (39 credits) | 2012–2013 Programs, Courses and University Regulations - McGill University) goes a good amount further.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

I don't know why you are saying this amount of math is not suitable for admissions to MFE. The top programs pretty much all have the same prerequisites:

• Calculus (two semesters)
• Probability (one semester)
• Linear Algebra (one semester)
• C++ (one semester or certificate)
• Finance (one semester, or relevant work experience)

If you have a high GPA, high GRE, and relevant internship experience and a true desire to get into MFE for the right reasons you can get accepted with these prerequisites plus a few extra courses, while that program he mentioned (Major Concentration Mathematics for Management Students (39 credits) | 2012–2013 Programs, Courses and University Regulations - McGill University) goes a good amount further.

Fair enough. So it is good enough for admission in your opinion?

 

[pingu]

and a true desire to get into MFE for the right reasons

this sounds like a bunch of dung...