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COMPARE UW Seattle CFRM vs. UIUC MSFE vs. NYU Poly FRE

Which Program is better?

  • Total voters
    56
It seems like most people agree that the Brand name with NYU and the prime location make Poly competitive. I would love to hear from Alumni from UIUC, especially people who think that would be a better choice. Thank you
 
@Boubacar Diallo, I am not too sure about the brand thing regarding Poly. Even though its been integrated into NYU, employers in NYC would still know the difference between Courant and Poly (at least in the near future). But yes, the location itself is a huge plus!
 
While I appreciate you reaching out to me for advice, I strongly encourage you to compare the respective benefits of each program on your own as opposed to investing that time in hosting a popularity contest. Thank you and best of luck.
 
Ariel Block said:
While I appreciate you reaching out to me for advice, I strongly encourage you to compare the respective benefits of each program on your own as opposed to investing that time in hosting a popularity contest. Thank you and best of luck.
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Thank you for your advice. My intent is not to host a popularity contest, it is to try and gather as much information as I can to make an informed decision. You are entitled to your opinion and thank you for your reply
 
GoIllini said:
As an alumnus, I appreciate the respect for UIUC. I wish it were true that UIUC had a better program, but I'm not really sure that's the case.

UIUC will get you a job at a Chicago prop shop if you make an effort at recruiting and interview well. But I think NYU has the stronger brand. It will get you interviews at banks.

I have not yet seen a really good argument that UIUC is a better choice than NYU (there may be some points that I am missing). In the absence of such an argument, I think NYU has the stronger brand in finance, in the location where ~70% of the trading jobs in this country are (NJ, NYC, and CT).
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but NYU is hugely different from NYU-Poly
 
Wanderluster said:
but NYU is hugely different from NYU-Poly
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I believe NYU officially merged the two schools this year. So you can call it NYU honestly, and nobody will be the wiser.

Both have historically had fairly strong MFE programs and I'm not sure employers will care that much.

I wonder how much flak I will get for suggesting Baruch and Columbia should merge their MFE programs.
 
I also tend to believe that FM program at Courant and FE program at engineering are different in a bunch of aspects including the strong mathematical focus which FM programs possesses.

I'd like to draw a bit more from what Gollini said. Yes, most finance jobs in quant and trading are in the tri-state area. One must understand that big names like MS, GS, Citi, etc. offer very few positions every year. And there are tons of other companies that you should be considering. And there are multiple roles too in tech, financial analytics, etc. I see that there is huge demand for Risk Mgmt professionals for example. So you should be clear about what you want. Look at curriculum of programs, see what fits the best for you and then make the decision. How do you do that? Google, Quantnet, etc. Understand what verticals are out there that hire FE grads. Read a lot about them and see where you think you'd be comfortable to work (can't stress on this enough). That last part is important because most of you are quitting jobs and coming for MS. The reason is that you did not like it there or you dint fit well. You wouldn't want that to happen again.
 
Azamat Bagatov said:
I also tend to believe that FM program at Courant and FE program at engineering are different in a bunch of aspects including the strong mathematical focus which FM programs possesses.

I'd like to draw a bit more from what Gollini said. Yes, most finance jobs in quant and trading are in the tri-state area. One must understand that big names like MS, GS, Citi, etc. offer very few positions every year. And there are tons of other companies that you should be considering. And there are multiple roles too in tech, financial analytics, etc. I see that there is huge demand for Risk Mgmt professionals for example. So you should be clear about what you want. Look at curriculum of programs, see what fits the best for you and then make the decision. How do you do that? Google, Quantnet, etc. Understand what verticals are out there that hire FE grads. Read a lot about them and see where you think you'd be comfortable to work (can't stress on this enough). That last part is important because most of you are quitting jobs and coming for MS. The reason is that you did not like it there or you dint fit well. You wouldn't want that to happen again.
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If the objective of your FE degree is a job at MS, GS, or Citi, then you should reconsider your plans. You are going to be competing against a whole another subset of graduates coming straight out of Wharton, Harvard, Stanford, etc. Not to mention, bulge bracket investment banks never consider graduate students (especially from a non-ivy) for domestic analyst positions. The Hong Kong, Singapore, Tokyo, and Sydney divisions of bulge bracket banks do take Financial Engineering students however, and Chinese/Indian students from Columbia and CMU regularly intern in such capacities. If you want to aim for these positions, then it'd probably be wise to go to a school with global reputation and brand recognition. (And if you want to figure this out, look at the Times and US News world rankings of universities instead of QuantNet.) Ofcourse, if you have your heart set on New York and you know for certain thats where you want to build your career, then I don't know why you bothered applying to non-NY universities. (Indeed, there exists career fairs somewhere in the world - where BB-banks herd to recruit for bilingual personnel for their HK/Singapore/etc. offices. I also went to one such fair last year and got 1-on-1 interviews with companies like UBS, Deloitte, Bain&Co., etc. I'm fairly certain that most of the recruiters/interviewers I met had no clue what QuantNet is, and they certainly didn't care about where the UIUC program ranked or what 'tier' the people posting on the forums thought it was.)

I'm not trying to sell UIUC. But as a general rule in life, I believe you should never view of any endeavor as merely a "stepping stone." As FE students, we are already in a precarious position where the demand for our services is basically determined by the rate at which tax loopholes close and the SEC or CFTC introduce regulation to the exchanges. Frankly speaking, its a tough argument to make saying that what we study is actually necessary for economic growth, and future job security for FEs is totally at the mercy of legislators. So I hope that the main reason you are choosing to study FE is for the love of learning it, and that you aren't sacrificing some of your happiness now for a goal that is becoming increasingly fantastical. Ofcourse the opportunities for employment after graduation is something you should consider when choosing a program. But given the extremely competitive nature of the job market, somewhere inside you should also be pondering if the experience you will be putting yourself through will still be worth it even if you don't achieve the ultimate goal you went there for. Basically, choose somewhere you can picture yourself enjoying and don't obsess too much over the marginal increments in your prospects of finding a job. And also, if I may, stop thinking of financial engineering as merely a proxy for entering into a career in finance! (If you can look at the bigger picture, you'll find that many of our skills such as data management/quantitative analysis can be highly valuable in other fields. Plus, then don't you just go get a finance degree?)

If you subscribe to whatever I said above, then UIUC is a wonderful place to be. The beautiful campus adorned with Gregorian-style architecture, the ever-cordial professors whom are at their best when nourishing intellectual curiosity in young minds, the broad selection of available coursework that enables you to explore any of the tangential avenues associated with financial engineering - especially in those fields that students whom are good fits for FE programs find intrinsically satisfying such as scientific computing/high performance computing/algorithm design (and not to mention that these classes are taught by world-renown researchers in the field), the youthful and liberal atmosphere.

(I made audio recordings of our class lectures. Shoot me a message if you want some sample clips:P).
 
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OP since UW is in the poll, can you please change the title of thread to include UW CFRM? That might be one reason why this thread is not getting reviews for UW... Thanks
 
NYU MFE is a much better choice given the location (2 train stops away from Wall st). You will not need to compete with everyone else for that summer internship (Although it is an advantage to have a bulge bracket on your resume) because you can intern during the semester.
 
According to me, except location there are a lot of other factors which should be taken into consideration. If location is the only factor, then please choose Steven, Fordham, RPI, etc etc. over UIUC. One should think wisely. Most people are doing MFE as their final degree and want their career in this field. Location factor is just a short term consideration. One should be academically strong and I am sure he/she can get to any location of his/her choice (may not immediately but after one switch).

First of all, saying it NYU MFE except NYU Poly MFE hasn't changed anything. Employers know so many students enroll every year (god knows how many get accepted). Think about the acceptance rate and hence, think about the level of students. Most of the good students consider it as "Safe Choice" and do not enroll

Secondly, even if some of the additional career services are opened for NYU Poly now, that will benefit top 2-3% of the group and let me tell you this, even if this 2-3% people know that they can get job with out these career services, they will apply and hence, things will remain the same :P

Moreover, I agree that NYU offer a lot of electives but you need proper guidance to choose what you should take and what not, especially for people who go to NYU Poly, UIUC, etc because most of them don't have experience in the field and they don't know much.. But personal assistance to 200 students.. haha.. Not possible guys :P... If you get chance, just try to look at the percentage distribution of students taking different electives. I am sure more than 90% would be inclined towards 2-3 electives.. So basically you "Run with the Crowd".. what's the use of so many electives then???

Please clear this in your mind that you can only flaunt "I am from NYU MFE" in front of those who don't know about this field, others will definitely revert back by saying it's NYU Poly which offers MFE.. NYU offers MSMF.. We' re here for making our lives for ourselves not to "Show off", I guess!

PS: This is only my personal view and I don't have any grudges from any of the programs
 
Another positive thing worth noting with the UIUC program is the practicum project, where you get a chance to apply your knowledge to a real setting. This is really valuable, as real-world problems are different from problems you encounter in an academic setting. It's very fitting for a professional program as well, since you will be meeting face-to-face with your clients, and working on the data/platform they will be providing. The practicum is not a joke too...one of our corporate clients "Nanex Research" was also mentioned in the book Flash Boys by Michael Lewis very recently (pg.202 for those of you who bought the book already).
 
I went down to UIUC yesterday (April 4) and spoke with the Assistant director. Unfortunately, I was not able to meet any student, because they do not have classes on Friday and some of them were in Chicago for the practicum. I believe that the program is improving and from talking to her it looks like it is getting some exposure to the big companies in Chicago. Apparently, recruiters are starting to come from Chicago specifically for the MSFE program to hire and find interns. I know that was one issue many past students were complaining about, that career services was not (maybe still isn't) geared enough towards the program for its caliber and price tag. They have a couple Bloomberg terminals in the computer lab and a Maxeler provided by one Chicago company (CME if I remember correctly) that is sponsoring a Practicum project. She mentioned that all domestic students are placed in either Chicago or NY with the vast majority in Chicago.
They are also starting to offer some classes in Chicago that are taught by practitioners, and they provide transportation and accommodations for students to take the classes in Chicago. They are starting to build those precious connections and getting recognition from the industry in Chicago. t also seems like a great place to leave.

Having said all of that, I still don't know if this program will put you in any better shape for your career than say UW or Poly. I know that Poly despite everything receives BB banks (namely GS, MS,...) that come to recruit Poly students. Also, the faculty at Poly is renowned in the field of Finance (Tapiero, Maymin, Taleb). For good independent students (i'd like to think myself as one) who given the huge variety of courses available at Poly can design their course of action with good advising, and in terms of career just need that first push with the opportunity to interview with those big names, I think this is a plus.

At the end of the day different factors count more than others for different people.
 
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Abu Afriq said:
I went down to UIUC yesterday (April 4) and spoke with the Assistant director. Unfortunately, I was not able to meet any student, because they do not have classes on Friday and some of them were in Chicago for the practicum. I believe that the program is improving and from talking to her it looks like it is getting some exposure to the big companies in Chicago. Apparently, recruiters are starting to come from Chicago specifically for the MSFE program to hire and find interns. I know that was one issue many past students were complaining about, that career services was not (maybe still isn't) geared enough towards the program for its caliber and price tag. They have a couple Bloomberg terminals in the computer lab and a Maxeler provided by one Chicago company (CME if I remember correctly) that is sponsoring a Practicum project. She mentioned that all domestic students are placed in either Chicago or NY with the vast majority in Chicago.
They are also starting to offer some classes in Chicago that are taught by practitioners, and they provide transportation and accommodations for students to take the classes in Chicago. They are starting to build those precious connections and getting recognition from the industry in Chicago. t also seems like a great place to leave.

Having said all of that, I still don't know if this program will put you in any better shape for your career than say UW or Poly. I know that Poly despite everything receives BB banks (namely GS, MS,...) that come to recruit Poly students. Also, the faculty at Poly is renowned in the field of Finance (Tapiero, Maymin, Taleb). For good independent students (i'd like to think myself as one) who given the huge variety of courses available at Poly can design their course of action with good advising, and in terms of career just need that first push with the opportunity to interview with those big names, I think this is a plus.

At the end of the day different factors count more than others for different people.
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I respect your decision to attend NYU Poly dude. And thanks for putting in the effort to visit campus and giving a fair and informed evaluation. As long as you have done your research and aligned your choice with your objectives, then I think you've made the correct decision.

My ignorant personal perception though is that this whole 'New York is always better' argument is overplayed. There are so many universities in the area that going to Poly with the intent of landing something at a BB bank can kind of seem like investing in a mezzanine-level CDO tranche. And from talking to just a couple people that I know in the super-senior tranches, it doesn't seem like the job-market in NYC is very favorable for them either.

I also think that across all the different programs, theres a lot of variation in where the emphasis is placed, and even on the philosophy as to what financial engineering is. So I think people's decisions should also reflect 'what you want to learn.' I personally don't think finance = financial engineering. In fact, I think the difference between the two is so stark its like comparing aviation to aerospace engineering. They both work on airplanes, but you don't need to know how jet engines are made to fly a plane, and you don't need to know why binomial models/monte-carlo simulations are better for pricing certain options to become a financier. The fundamental methods for analyzing stochastic systems were all developed for practical purposes in designing manufacturing processes and solving logistical problems, way before they began to be applied to esoteric subjects in finance. I find that many problems tackled in INFORMS journal publications are more relevant to FE's than some of those in the Journal of Finance, and through choosing a top-ranked engineering school and preserving this practical connection, I find that it gives me some peace of mind - the concepts I'm learning now have actually benefited society a lot in the engineering field, but they were just applied in the wrong way in finance. Its enough to convince myself that I'm not dedicating these years of my life to learn something unethical, and I rejected the idea of going to NYC "just to get to Wall Street." If this is what keeps you going though, then I'm all for it.
A cautionary tale though about a friend, who after completing her masters in aerospace engineering at a top 5 university, interviewed at GS and was asked, "So why finance?" She answered the question, "because my dream is to earn a lot of money and get rich." Her interviewer said that a lot of people answer that same question the same way. She didn't make it past the first round.
 
the end goal is to find a job and uiuc is tier 3.5 at most for dat matter. despite its subpar student body, i will place poly at tier 2.5, as it grants access to vast career opportunities which uiuc simply cant offer. in other words, if one tries hard, he/she is much more likely to achieve something in poly than uiuc. coming from a worse than nontarget school, i realize deeply how important the accessibility to those coveted opportunities (job openings, networking, etc.) really means. no real finance company recruits at my school. very limited alumni recruit, cuz student body just sux. socal location couldnt help either, not even for asset management. i made it by miraculous luck (applying thru company website). it was super difficult for us to get interview invite. but as long as u got dat interview invite, it doesnt matter which school ur other interview candidates come from - columbia, nyu, and watnot, it doesnt matter. its all fair game onwards. i believe poly will give u more of those interview invites than uiuc, given ur smart and work hard. i was laughing at one guy who only got in poly and rejected by any other schools he applied for mfe. i thot he would never get a real quant job. but he proved me idiot couple weeks ago, as he became vp at a bb doing real quant work while im still an underpaid lowly associate. he said opportunities r there. he networked extensively and knew ppl in many companies. and those ppl helped him break in. if he decided to go to another subpar school somewhere else outside of nyc, he would have surely not got this far.

any semi-sane person who srsly prepared interview wouldnt answer "because my dream is to earn a lot of money and get rich". its a retarded cautionary tale.
 
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