Why is there a lot of international students pursuing mfe?

[pinkjigglypuff]

I looked at the profiles of students in various mfe programs and noticed that a lot of them were international students.

 

[Tsotne]

Perhaps MFE is viewed as a quick shortcut to industry...rather than devoting more time pursuing upper academic degrees. Because, if you also look at the purpose of those pursuing mfe, most of them state that they are making kind of fast steps for getting job.

 

[Forza]

Maybe another thing is that a good majority of Americans didn't grow up enjoying math, and instead pursue careers there are not as math intensive. I remembered when I immigrated here from Hong Kong when I was young, I was surprised how ahead I was in math compared to my peers.

Also, I think most that want to go into finance in the states still see the MBA route as the "it" solution as it has been the last couple decades. But I think that is slowly starting to change as finance is evolving into a much more quantitative career than say 10-15 years ago.

 

[enthusiast]

I looked at the profiles of students in various mfe programs and noticed that a lot of them were international students.

I believe that the fundamental reasons for this are;

1. The standard of Math taught in school/high school in countries like China, India, Russia, etc is higher than in the US. As far as high school is concerned US does better in other things like Practical aspects of science (Labs), English, History, etc to name a few. The better math background and cultural forces push international students to pursue engineering, math, medicine and sciences for their bachelors degree more so than the US. Math, Programming and Finance are critical skills for MFE's. Of the three Finance is the easiest to pick up. Hence there are a lot of engineers, math majors pursing MFE (especially international).
2. If you complete the MFE and land a decent job, the pay is great compared to say a MS in XXXX. This makes the MFE choice very popular.

 

[Tsotne]

I believe that the fundamental reasons for this are;

1. The standard of Math taught in school/high school in countries like China, India, Russia, etc is higher than in the US. As far as high school is concerned US does better in other things like Practical aspects of science (Labs), English, History, etc to name a few. The better math background and cultural forces push international students to pursue engineering, math, medicine and sciences for their bachelors degree more so than the US. Math, Programming and Finance are critical skills for MFE's. Of the three Finance is the easiest to pick up. Hence there are a lot of engineers, math majors pursing MFE (especially international).
2. If you complete the MFE and land a decent job, the pay is great compared to say a MS in XXXX. This makes the MFE choice very popular.

Great answer. The first reason looks very interesting. US imports mathematicians switching from pure math to financial programs. The number of such people are big internationally. US has a good capability of teaching natural sciences at high schools provided there are adequate labs, equipment for physics, chemistry, biology which is quite a big problem for other countries you mentioned. So they base their educational systems concentrated on what capabilities they have. Math doesn't require such developed infrastructure for educational system.

 

[enthusiast]

US has a good capability of teaching natural sciences at high schools provided there are adequate labs, equipment for physics, chemistry, biology which is quite a big problem for other countries you mentioned. So they base their educational systems concentrated on what capabilities they have. Math doesn't require such developed infrastructure for educational system.

Extremely valid point.

 

[Tsotne]

Programming and Finance are critical skills for MFE's. Of the three Finance is the easiest to pick up. Hence there are a lot of engineers, math majors pursing MFE (especially international).

Also if you take a look at India and Pakistan and some other Asian countries, the proportion of programmers in the educational system as a whole is by far greater than that of US. We mentioned infrastructure... <<this is not only reason since US doesn't lack informational systems infrastructure of course. It is the inclination of those countries to some specified fields (programming in this case). Such they differ...

 

[bigbadwolf]

Maybe another thing is that a good majority of Americans didn't grow up enjoying math, and instead pursue careers there are not as math intensive.

If you examine US curricula, textbooks, and the manner of teaching in American schools, you will be driven to the conclusion that they're designed to engender math phobia. In addition, for political reasons, the emphasis is on slow learners and not on providing fast learners with the extra intellectual nutrition they need. For a few years after Sputnik, the politicians were serious about rectifying the dysfunctional school system, but that interest subsided. Countries that do not depend on immigration -- Japan and Germany, for instance -- are far more serious about what their schoolchildren learn.

 

[Forza]

For a few years after Sputnik, the politicians were serious about rectifying the dysfunctional school system, but that interest subsided. Countries that do not depend on immigration -- Japan and Germany, for instance -- are far more serious about what their schoolchildren learn.

The Sputnik comment is interesting, just never heard that before. Why did the interest subsided?

Yea, I remember when I was in Hong Kong (dramatically more outflow than inflow in population at the time), schooling even at an elementary level was hardcore. But as mentioned by Tsotne, all of it was pure math than applied, and I was shocked at first how much focus was on natural science and the likes at my school in California.

But then I quickly got over it when they introduced me to kickball

 

[bigbadwolf]

The Sputnik comment is interesting, just never heard that before. Why did the interest subsided?

"Sputnik moment" is now part of the idiom; it occurred when the Soviet Union launched its first earth-orbiting satellite in 1957. It was particularly galling for the Americans since they nicked most (all?) of the German rocket scientists (like von Braun).

Intellectual work just isn't part of American culture. Commentators from Tocqueville (Democracy in America) to Hofstadter (Anti-Intellectualism in American Life) have written about it.

 

[Forza]

Oops sorry, I knew what Sputnik was about, just didn't know why they stop their interest in rectifying the school system. But I guess the second part of your post explains that.

Also noticed lately there have been commercials pushing science/math for high school students - maybe we have come to a point where our culture is changing?

 

[bigbadwolf]

Also noticed lately there have been commercials pushing science/math for high school students - maybe we have come to a point where our culture is changing?

Hehe, commercials won't do the trick. Reminds me of the "Read!" posters I've seen in American schools figuring people like Shaq O'Neill holding an open book. Fat lot of good such empty exhortations do -- read why? read what? Anti-intellectualism -- if not actual pride in ignorance -- is part of the national character, the warp-and-woof of American society. Also, I suspect the commercials (I haven't seen them) are pushing the utilitarian aspects of science rather than the aesthetic -- which if true, is the wrong way to go about encouraging science. But then again, can aesthetic values be pushed in a consumerist, capitalist culture, of which the US is the primary exponent? Interesting philosophical question.

 

[Forza]

That is a great question, from an interesting point of view. I am going to give that some thought.

I wish questions like that come up in conversations more often, instead of asking what is Charlie Sheen going to do today...did Shaq even graduate with a degree?

 

[bigbadwolf]

... did Shaq even graduate with a degree?

From Wiki:

O'Neal left LSU early to pursue his NBA career, but returned to school in 2000 and received a Bachelor of Arts in General Studies.

 

[Forza]

While patrolling the streets as a sheriff. #Winning

 

[onthesc]

I think Shaq's case would qualify for the unmistakably awesome #Bi-winning

 

[Forza]

Haha, I loved Shaq when he was with my beloved Lakers and hated him when he was with Miami. Haven't really kept up with basketball for the last couple years, but I don't think he is doing much anymore with the Cs....

 

[bigbadwolf]

I think Mike Tyson made $130m during his career (which he's blown). People like Tiger Woods and Shaq O'Neal probably made comparable figures. Which working scientist has made a fraction of this? Or had a fraction of the glamor? How to convince the impressionable young to put in years of detailed study for an unglamorous, poorly paid line of work which doesn't even get much respect from a venal society? And which may not even lead to a career as PhDs flit from one post-doc to another, or become ill-paid and ill-treated adjuncts? Ally this to a possibly dysfunctional school system that encourages mediocrity and you've got a big chunk of the reason why foreign students are so over-represented in graduate engineering, comp sci, math, and physics.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I looked at the profiles of students in various mfe programs and noticed that a lot of them were international students.

If you look at profiles of students in hard science (math/CS/physics/etc) grad programs across the US, you will see the same thing. I don't think MFE is something different here.

 

[Forza]

Mike Tyson was pretty funny in Hangover though!

I always wonder why grade school teachers are paid so little, considering that they are the first line of folks who can change the thoughts of those impressionable young minds. I do think a lot of capable folks want to teach but simply can't since you can't support a family on that kind of salary (my fiance's mom is a HS teacher, and she makes scrap). I think if you fix that underlying problem (just one of many), tangible improvements will be seen.