Bad references

[Swayum]

The title is an exagerration, I don't have bad references, but I don't have stunning ones either. I am currently a student at the London School of Economics and Political Science, but at least one of my referees is not writing well. He's not writing bad things, it's just he's not selling me much. That's not because he thinks I'm bad or anything, but because he just doesn't appear to be very good at writing references. My references aren't GLOWING basically.

The obvious solution is to use different referees, but I literally can't find any one else. All the teachers I've had in the past have been PhD students. This only really leaves lecturers who don't even know I exist basically. Asking them for a reference just seems pointless. Even the ones I'm using have never taught me, but they're in a role where they're expected to write references for students.

So my question is; how much do references matter? If other parts of your application are good, will a non-glowing reference be seen as fishy and lead to a rejection?

I could possibly use a reference from my internship at an investment bank, but I didn't convert it to a full time offer and my manager didn't like me very much, so I can't imagine him writing anything glowing. He doesn't have a strong academic background anyway.

 

[MSFHQ]

I think a reference should be glowing or don't do it at all. I mean it is something you can directly control. Imagine you are an adcom and you tell people to get references from people who know you and then you read a lukewarm one. I would think the student didn't think this through or wasn't as good as they are trying to convey.

 

[Swayum]

I don't really have the option of "don't do it at all" though do I? Universities like Princeton ask for 3 references, there's no way to bypass it. When you say that "the student didn't think this through", what do you mean? It's not like the student (I) have any control over what they write - I can only request for them to write a reference. As I point out in my post, I don't have anybody else to approach, as I don't think I should be using PhD students as my referees!

 

[MSFHQ]

All I am saying is if you know you are going to get a lackluster review you should find someone else. The reviews are not always the most important part of your application, but if admissions is reading three reviews and all of them are blah you will be cast in a bad light.

How about co workers, but just a little senior to you (associate, VP). Internships, charity coworkers, other professionals that you know and have associations with.

All I know is if I was an adcom and I read 3 letters where the reviewer had basic and unexciting things to say about an applicant I would think that the applicant didn't know there people too well.

 

[KadeerQ]

Anthony is absolutely right. If your references arent saying great things about you, its absolutely clear you've picked the wrong people.

Try and engage with them to ask for a strong reference and see their reaction. Ask them outright, can I have a strong reference? If they're uncomfortable, there is your answer.

 

[RedPanda]

Isn't it the common thing to waive the right to see the references? In this case how would you know exactly if the references is really strong?

 

[MSFHQ]

Waive the right, but try and mail the app yourself (or see a copy). The people who wrote rec letters for me simply gave me the copies and I sent them in. Control the situation, don't let it control you.

 

[RedPanda]

Waive the right, but try and mail the app yourself (or see a copy). The people who wrote rec letters for me simply gave me the copies and I sent them in. Control the situation, don't let it control you.

I don't know. I did this a long time ago, the recommenders were giving away sealed envelopes with signature over the seal. Now it is done through e-mail, so it is even harder to take a look...

 

[Andy Nguyen]

The system is designed so that ref letters are confidential and applicants can't see it. There are cultures where you are asked to write your own letter and your professors will sign and mail it. Do not do it under any circumstances.
I always waive the rights to view it and let they do their things.

 

[Swayum]

In the end, I have managed to get a different professor to write one for me, one who I'm doing research for.