COMPARE Baruch MFE vs NYU MathFin

[Kenneth_Chan]

Since we're all quants, what's the probability that you may have to return to Asia immediately? If it's low, then Baruch without a question, because your plan is to stay in the U.S. for a few years.

 

[roni]

These 20K won't kill you... take the loan and go to NYU.
Baruch MFE is a good program (at least from what I can see students here say), but the name and the school in general SUCKS !!

Brand name and alumni network are very important, especially if you are planning on going back to your country after graduation.
Plus, NYU will give you career flexibility if for some reason you decide you want to do something else.

 

[Laura]

Thanks all for your advice. Up to now, I more incline to NYU. I could not get a loan in Singapore as I'm not yet a PR and I don't want my parent to take a loan on my behalf. I have asked NYU opinion for enrollment deferral. More likely, I will join NYU in Fall 2013. It's kind of sad but I would prefer to take the degree when I'm financially ready.

 

[sgmfof]

I would not even think twice, NYU is much better recognized than Baruch internationally in all aspects, even if later on you move on to management role (rarely anybody will work as financial engineer battling with models/pde/ode.. for the rest of their life), NYU name will add much value to your resume and your credibility among peers, Baruch can give you a head start to get a first job but then it will not help you as much as NYU in the rest of your career, even in US, outside of New York many people are also not familiar with Baruch not to mention places like Asia/Europe/Middle East

 

[Laura]

Hi sgmfof, your opinion is valid. However, I do think that school brand name does help in getting the first job after graduate but will not have a heavy count on long-term career advancement. It should be the ability, work experience & leadership that count.

I still have not 100% certain that I would got for NYU. I did check student profiles for 2 recent years from Baruch and NYU. Undoubtedly, all have very good academic results. My concern is that Baruch has much more diversified student profiles in term of backgrou ality. However, base on my own experience, if there is a large group of students from the same country, speaking the same language, that group will tend to keep to themselves or group together. It is not easy(though I don't say impossible) for me to break in for closely discussion and to socialize.I consider the program is not only a place to study academic knowledge, but also an environment to meet up new people, to share different perspectives and learn from each other , to observe and learn from different working & thinking styles (sounds that I want to learn so many things :P).

Have you ever in a similar situation and what do you think?
I've tried to contact Paul from NYU as recommended by Andy, but I guess he is very busy now with project deadlines and final exams. I will try if I can get any opinion from any other NYU students.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Here is another person who can help you.
https://www.quantnet.com/forum/threads/mit-mfin-vs-nyu-msmf.9128/#post-87042

 

[letangke]

I consider the program is not only a place to study academic knowledge, but also an environment to meet up new people, to share different perspectives and learn from each other , to observe and learn from different working & thinking styles (sounds that I want to learn so many things :P).

I couldn't agree with you more! As a current student at NYU, I can say that we have a really friendly and close class. Because there are only about 30 of us, there is a lot of collaboration and we frequently go out together as a class. You shouldn't be worried about getting stuck only talking to people with the same native language if you make an effort to talk to everyone and hang out with them. We have so many different cultures represented, it's been great to meet people from all over the world!

 

[kpranjal]

Geographical diversity alone should not be a deciding factor. A good program attracts good students, its that simple. I would suggest you compare the student professional profiles' from both NYU and Baruch. I'm sure the obvious would stare you in the face.

 

[DominiConnor]

I agree with kpranjal that diversity should not be high in your list of criteria, geographical or otherwise, though as I've said before I don't believe the correlation between quality of programme and those taking it is as high as it should be, but at least that's some data in a low data situation.
I would encourage you as strongly as I can, not to stick with "your type of people", this is damaging to you as a person and for your career.
Be aware that as a headhunter I have no morality in anything I say I mean that purely in what is good for you, especially if you're not white.
Fact is that if your name is Indian or Chinese or just "foreign looking", employers will look harder at your communication skills, even if your family has been so long in the country that no one really knows when they came over. Maybe it shouldn't be that way, but as above that's for someone else to fix.
Also banking is a highly international sport, you will need to function with every type of God's children as well as people like me who he has disowned. I'll be explicit here, a while back I terminated an interview with someone who'd picked up the composition of a group and was worried about whether they'd be able to cope, they seemed quite pissed about it, since I didn't try very hard to hide my contempt.
Indeed as an exercise you should take the opportunity to strike up conversations with the "type" of person that one might expect to be least compatible with your own, again I'm not trying to help society, just help you. You will sometimes fail of course, one cannot achieve one's potential without some things not going right, but the joy of school is that it ends and that the downside doesn't follow you through your career.

You will have a boss and colleagues who aren't "like you", if you feel uncomfortable about that you either fix it, or choose another career.

You're smart, you can get better than you are, you may be good already, again better is good.

 

[Paul Mithouard]

My answer to Laura.
'' As far as reputation on Wall Street is concerned, most people know NYU, few people know CUNY/Baruch. This is just a fact I noticed when I came to New York, last September. Although it is highly regarded on the web, it is not the reality in New York, as of right now.
Regarding the content of the program, both schools have good faculty: Baruch has Gatheral and Stephanica, NYU has Dupire, Mercurio, Koln, Kolm, Avenalleda etc... . I have not attended any class at CUNY but as far as NYU is concerned, the curriculum is very practical and applied since most teachers are practitioners and are currently working in the industry.
Both program have a small class size, we are 30 in our batch and Baruch is about the same I think. This is very important to be able to tie close bounds with your peers while in the program because they will be among your first connections in the industry as your start your career.
Also look at the campus, the neighborhood and the life you would have. Remember that once you find your job/internship. You want to enjoy your life after many years of hard study and weeks of job hunting. What is the point of having a job if you dislike your life for the remaining 9 months to go into the program?
In my opinion, the main reason one would choose CUNY over NYU is the tuition cost which are lower there. My advice would be not count your money on your degree. It is an investment. 20K may seem a lot now but is very few compared to the long term return you get from studying in an already well-known university/program. As someone said earlier in the post, your school will follow you wherever you will go, and NYU Courant is a good brand to have today, as the financial markets are getting more and more technical.
Finally, look beyond the % of students placed in each program. The quality of the job found matters even more. Keep in mind that you are not looking for a job but rather for the specific job you aim at. It is definitely an advantage to come and study FE with an idea of what you want to do and choose your program accordingly. Since you are working in the industry, you probably have an idea about that already.
I hope this will help you in your decision,
Regards,
Paul
''

 

[drupollini]

Laura, as a current Baruch MFE student I wanted to address a few of the things that you and others have mentioned about NYU vs. Baruch.

Brand name. I agree that if you find yourself at a cocktail party and mention “Baruch” many people won’t be familiar with the school. I have a feeling that this is what is motivating a lot of the concern over “brand name”. It can’t be because people are worried that having Baruch MFE on their resume is going to prevent them from getting their first jobs in the industry. Current and past classmates have gotten jobs/internships at JP Morgan, Bank of America, Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, RBS, Barclays Capital, State Street, Quantitative Brokers, Deutsche Bank, CME, ITG, and much more.

Career support. Don’t underestimate the power of career services. In contrast, Baruch MFE’s staff has been committed to placing each of its students which explains its near perfect placement rate. The small size of our class makes it feasible for staff to give personal attention to each of us. Many of us have gotten interviews at places we didn’t even apply for. We’ve also gotten a lot of help in interview skills, presentation skills, dress, networking, etc.

Diversity. Classmates of mine come from all over: the US, China, Russia, India, Latin America, etc. I can’t say how useful this diversity is career-wise, but I certainly appreciate working with people from so many different backgrounds. Someone mentioned the importance of communication skills for international students. I’ve seen many of my classmates improve considerably in this regard. We do so much work in teams and have to constantly explain ourselves to teammates. It helps us native English speakers too.

Skills. I went into the program with virtually no programming experience. I now feel comfortable putting C++, Python, R, VBA, Bash, and MATLAB on my resume. I didn’t just learn syntax; everything from efficient algorithms to effective object-oriented design. My classmates and I have to use these tools almost every day and consequently know how to use them well.

Teaching. I have been consistently pleased with the quality of teachers I have had at Baruch. Some have a considerable reputation – e.g., Jim Gatheral, Attilio Meucci, and Miguel Castro. The small class sizes make it easy for students to have one-on-one interaction with their teachers. There are a lot of interesting special courses as well, like machine learning, statistical arbitrage, market microstructure, and interest rate models.

I definitely don’t want to bash NYU or any of the other programs. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. I’ve just had a very positive experience in the Baruch MFE program and would highly recommend it.

 

[Joel Cheng]

Dear Paul & Drupollini

Thank you for your insight. I am considering as well joining the Baruch MFE next year. Paul is right, the reputation of Baruch on Internet is far better than Courant Institute. However, I have never been to New York and cannot tell about the "local" reputation of the program. The lower tuition fee is of course a strong asset Baruch, even if the cost should not be taken into account for such an investment in my career.
Paul, your experience is very valuable. However, you said something that I have not understood. You are saying :

"Also look at the campus, the neighborhood and the life you would have. Remember that once you find your job/internship. You want to enjoy your life after many years of hard study and weeks of job hunting. What is the point of having a job if you dislike your life for the remaining 9 months to go into the program?"



Can you tell me more ? Actually, the social life in the program is very important for me. It will be my last year as a student...

Thanks for your insight !!
Regards
Joel

 

[drupollini]

Can you tell me more ? Actually, the social life in the program is very important for me. It will be my last year as a student...

I see my classmates nearly every day. I've also gone skiing and seen movies with them, too, if that's the sort of thing you're looking for. A couple of the professors also regularly meet with students after class in the bars around school. Considering how small the quant world is and how important making connections is at this stage in our careers, I'd say that this aspect is one of the things I appreciate the most about Baruch.

We also spend so much time completing projects and learning new material that we end up working together quite a bit. This has been really good for improving my communication skills and testing my comprehension of the material.

 

[MRoss]

I agree with everything Dru has said. As far as social life we have played poker together on numerous occasions and I play ball with current classmates once a week. Thus far this program has exceeded my expectations and I would not hesitate to recommend it for a moment.

 

[SYau]

Laura, what did you end up deciding?

 

[Laura]

Hi SYau,

I have decided I will enroll in NYU in Fall 2013. I have defered my enrollment by 1 year to be more financially ready. I made this decision 2 weeks ago.

Thanks for all advise from QuantNet. I really appreaciate that. It is a hard decision because both programs are great. I had tried hard to prepare for Baruch MFE interview etc.. and that would speak for myself how highly I value the Baruch MFE program. I chose NYU because I might have to go back Asia.

I'm looking forward to seeing your guys in New York next years. I hope to hook up with your guys here over a coffee or something like that.

Laura.

 

[SYau]

Laura, good luck to you at NYU. I wish you had join us at Baruch though.