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Career path, Please help

calhawk

Joined
2/16/10
Messages
6
Points
11
Hello,

First of all I am very glad that i found this website. It is very helpful. The question I am about to ask everyone is very complex. I am doing my undergrad at Towson university, MD. My major is Business Finance. The reason i choose my major was because i wanted to TRADE stocks. That was two years ago. Since then I have also been equity trading full time. I have made many mistakes but luckily i have learned from my mistakes and became a better trader. I while back I was reading a book regarding career paths and a quote i would like to share from it goes something like this, "Become so good at something that you are irreplaceable in a room." Based on that quote I started reading many books based on technical analysis and i also read many journals of some successful traders. The point I am trying to make is that I have been trading for two years, I have made many mistakes trading and I continue to make them - however, I learn from my mistakes and overall I am making money trading. I love equity trading - this is my life and i will continue to trade.
The complex I have is that - I am three more semesters away from gruaduating. I hate my major - because it does not teach me about trading at all. Nothing that i have learned so far has helped me with trading. I am very discouraged because initially when i choose my major -i was under the impression that i would learn how to TRADE stocks. I would really appreciate it if some of you will try to put your self in my shoes and give me some ideas on what you guys would do. My goal is to continue trading stocks for my self and eventually work for a firm that specializes in equity trading. I did some research and i came up with the conclusion that more prominent trading firms do require a back ground in QUANT. On the other hand I can always go toward propriety trading - where a lot of firms only care about your track record. What would you do if you were me?
1. Should I change my major into math and eventually get my masters in quantitative field?
2. Why join a "prominent" firm when you can trade for firms without a masters in XXX?
3. etc...

I look forward to everyone's replies.

Sincerely,
Umair Chaudhry
http://www.twitter.com/calhawk01 (My trading journal/alerts)
 
If memory serves be correctly, in the past many traders didn't even have college educations.

I don't know of any university programs that really have a trading teaching component so you are out of luck there.

First piece of advice is to get an internship in finance. Trading if you can, but even at an IB would be good experience. If you can get a job right after you graduate then there is no reason to get a masters straight away. But to be on the safe-side, I would recommend minoring in math/cs or at least take the minimum courses required by MFE programs. This way you are covered.
 
My question is: Can you describe your "mistakes"? and What did you learn from them? If you can't, you will probably get in trouble very fast.

Although a lot of beginners start in equities, most successful traders are in futures. Since you account is most likely under capitalized, FX can also be a much better space to "play/pay and learn" than equities. Maybe you are a market wizard or the next Oracle, in which case you should keep doing what you are doing.
 
WilliamY said:
My question is: Can you describe your "mistakes"? and What did you learn from them? If you can't, you will probably get in trouble very fast.

Although a lot of beginners start in equities, most successful traders are in futures. Since you account is most likely under capitalized, FX can also be a much better space to "play/pay and learn" than equities. Maybe you are a market wizard or the next Oracle, in which case you should keep doing what you are doing.
Click to expand...
Greed, over trading, always trying to find a system that will take me to the moon, too big of a watch list, etc
Right now i have a very simple system. The best thing i like about it is that it is runs streaming screens based on the criteria i have given
I have 4 level 1 screens.
1) Scans stocks from NYSE/NASDAQ/AMEX for gainers over 5% between X and X price levels with X and X volume
2) Scans stocks from NYSE/NASDAQ/AMEX based on Simple moving averages
3) Scans stocks from NYSE/NASDAQ/AMEX that have crashed from the open
4) My favorite list of stocks

Its been working for me. It is simple and it works. I like it a lot. For example today my moving average screen gave me PWER. I liked the setup.. bought at 4.00 and got out at 4.18.
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I agree that most of traders do not have masters etc. But when you try to get a job at firms like Jump trading, Spot trading etc they require a strong back ground in quant.
Also articles like these making you reconsider. The Top 10 Quant Schools, According to the Street by Advanced Trading

What do you think?
 
calhawk said:
Greed, over trading, always trying to find a system that will take me to the moon, too big of a watch list, etc
Right now i have a very simple system. The best thing i like about it is that it is runs streaming screens based on the criteria i have given
I have 4 level 1 screens.
1) Scans stocks from NYSE/NASDAQ/AMEX for gainers over 5% between X and X price levels with X and X volume
2) Scans stocks from NYSE/NASDAQ/AMEX based on Simple moving averages
3) Scans stocks from NYSE/NASDAQ/AMEX that have crashed from the open
4) My favorite list of stocks

Its been working for me. It is simple and it works. I like it a lot. For example today my moving average screen gave me PWER. I liked the setup.. bought at 4.00 and got out at 4.18.
-------
I agree that most of traders do not have masters etc. But when you try to get a job at firms like Jump trading, Spot trading etc they require a strong back ground in quant.
Also articles like these making you reconsider. The Top 10 Quant Schools, According to the Street by Advanced Trading

What do you think?
Click to expand...

All I can say is that you are crazy!

Standard & Poor's Indices Versus Active Funds Scorecard:
Over the five year market cycle from 2004 to 2008, S&P 500 outperformed 71.9% of actively managed large cap funds, S&P MidCap 400 outperformed 79.1% of mid cap funds and S&P SmallCap 600 outperformed 85.5% of small cap funds. These results are similar to that of the previous five year cycle from 1999 to 2003.
Click to expand...

Do you think you can outperform professional managers at Fidelity, PIMCO, or Vanguard consistenly? How about Jim Crammer at Mad Money?

You should read more about these quantitative finance programs before you jump. You can bet it'll give you a run for your money. You are almost as crazy as your stocks if you attend one of these program for your stated purpose.
 
WilliamY said:
All I can say is that you are crazy!

Standard & Poor's Indices Versus Active Funds Scorecard:


Do you think you can outperform professional managers at Fidelity, PIMCO, or Vanguard consistenly? How about Jim Crammer at Mad Money?

You should read more about these quantitative finance programs before you jump. You can bet it'll give you a run for your money. You are almost as crazy as your stocks if you attend one of these program for your stated purpose.
Click to expand...
Renaissance institutional fund ((worth billions of dollars) ran Simon has consistently returned over 50% for almost TWO decades per year. Those are the type of guys I look up to.

Yes, I do think i can outperform professional managers at fidelity, etc, with the right tools and if I am well capitalized.

Anyone familiar with Renaissance Institutional, want to take a stab at my questions?
 
Connor is right, when I first came into financial markets, the single most common background for a trader in London was to have graduated from Sandhurst, the British military academy.

Now it is tough to get in without a masters level qualification, indeed the average newbie trader going into a big bank now has more quant education than an entry level quant did 10 years ago.
 
get a minor in math. If you still can, change to regular finance or economics.
 
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