# CMU MSCFCMU MSCF launches Online program

##### CMU MSCF Alum
hence why cmu places people globally, abdel....

#### Lyosha

##### Psychic in Training
Still, +80k is too much.

No one knows about CMU up here, so let alone the rest of the world. lol

At this price I rather buy a house in Miami
idk man, CMU is pretty globally known and respected, especially when it comes to anything related to technology...

#### Abdel

##### Economist
I traveled alot. When it comes to US universities, the ppl I spoke with only know: Harvard, Princeton, MIT & Yale (and somewhat UC Berkley).

Plenty of my physicist friends never heard of CMU (and they are PHD's! lol).

My point is, if I'm only looking for a name recognition, I'd spend that 80k to go to Harvard.

#### logixwriter

##### Active Member
wow.. 80K+.. a lot for an online degree. Once I got call from online MBA from a premium school from North carolina. The lady said that I would need to come to the campus only twice in the whole curriculum and they will give MBA degree, of course after clearing the exams. I sometime wonder the quality of such online programs.

#### Andy Nguyen

##### Member
My point is, if I'm only looking for a name recognition, I'd spend that 80k to go to Harvard.
Sadly, Harvard does not have a quant master program. Yet. You can get a degree in basket weaving, though.
When MIT introduced their MFin program in 2009, people complained about the high price tag $72K for a one year program. Yet, they received close to 1,000 applicants each of the last 2 years. They even gave incentives for admitted students to defer. One thing to keep in mind that education is a global business. That means you have more demands from India/China than you have seats for them. And it is a very good business when you can name your own price and still have people waiting in a line to get it. If CMU MSCF is a public company, I would buy stocks in it. Once you understand that this is a business, it all makes sense. From the description of the new program, they will target the same audience who would otherwise be their part-time applicants. Remembers that these are people already working so it's very likely that the company will pay for their tuition so the high fee is irrelevant. This same group of applicants are those that probably will do an executive MBA during the weekends. Now, they can do it from home and get the MSCF degree. Universities do not invest money to open a new program if they haven't done the research and know there is a market demands out there. The trick is how to reach those market and build a brand. This is CMU's challenges in the years ahead. Fortunately, the market is plentiful of choices for different type of applicants. If you think a program is too expensive, history shows that there are 100s of people who can afford it. And this is what every business counts on. How well this program turns out, we will wait and see. I'm sure we will hear plenty from satisfied students as well as unhappy ones on Quantnet. The market will reward the good ones and punish the bad apples. #### amanda.jayne ##### Well-Known Member Still, +80k is too much. No one knows about CMU up here, so let alone the rest of the world. lol At this price I rather buy a house in Miami Outside of Canada no one knows UdeM, let alone the rest of the world. (or any other school in Canada that ISN'T McGill) Brand names have the ability to more easily open doors that wouldn't otherwise be open to you - some people place a high value on this. Then there's also that prestige thing. I opted for the random walk. I did my undergrad at Ryerson As for McGill, ranked 18th in the world, in what and by whom? I'm not a fan of "rankings", but I digress... #### Abdel ##### Economist Outside of Canada no one knows UdeM, let alone the rest of the world. (or any other school in Canada that ISN'T McGill) I don't care about the name recognition, as long as I know that what is being teached is the same materiel. These high tuitions for name recognition reminds me of those kids who thinks that by buying a$500 pair of soccer shoes, they'll turn into David Beckham.

Especially when you can have the exact same classes for 10k (instead of almost 90k).

Brand names have the ability to more easily open doors that wouldn't otherwise be open to you.
Maybe the 1st and 2nd job, but then, you're on your own.

As for McGill, ranked 18th in the world, in what and by whom? But I digress...
''McGill is consistently ranked among the top universities in Canada and worldwide. In the Maclean's 20th Annual University Rankings, McGill was the top-ranked in Canada among all institutions offering medical and doctoral degrees, maintaining this ranking for the sixth year in a row.[5] In 2010-2011, the QS World University Rankings placed McGill first in Canada and 19th in the world,[6] while the Times Higher Education World University Rankings placed McGill third in Canada, 26th in North America, and 35th in the world; in terms of reputation alone, the latter ranking placed McGill 29th in the world.[7][8]'' - Wiki

#### amanda.jayne

##### Well-Known Member
I don't care about the name recognition, as long as I know that what is being teached is the same materiel.

Especially when you can have the exact same classes for 10k (instead of almost 90k).
The material and textbooks may be the same. The access to professors, research, career services and alumni base may well not be. Again, one is permitted their own discretion to assign appropriate value to these.

Maybe the 1st and 2nd job, but then, you're on your own.
From my experience attending a 'tier 2' MBA who landed on Wall St. intentionally (albeit haphazardly), this 1st and 2nd job can have a huge impact on your future career. I had enough savings and a US citizenship to weather the storm of 07-09. The few b-school colleagues of mine who were able to fight their way to Wall Street are no longer here.

''McGill is consistently ranked among the top universities in Canada and worldwide.
The point I was trying to make is that using a generalized ranking for the sake of an argument makes for a flawed argument.

Most rankings are irrelevant from an academic viewpoint simply based on their methodology.

#### Abdel

##### Economist
The point I was trying to make is that using a generalized ranking for the sake of an argument makes for a flawed argument.
Well, the name recognition is based on those rankings.

My point is, name recognition is good but not at any price.

Anyhow, I don't want to ruin this topic nor slow the money of people's behind this initiative.

And as said, I applaud the fact they are offering an online degree (I hope more colleges will do the same).

We can continue this discussion on another thread.

#### BulbusMaximus

##### Member
I'll bet you any kind of money they won't run out of applicants.
Would you bet the same amount of money on the final placements for those applicants ?

##### Well-Known Member
I must say that although I think the CMU brand name is worth quite allot , not rolling the savings back to the clients is rude.
On CMU side the costs of an online course are much lower yet they charge full price.

I was probably try and admit if the costs were lower.

BTW, what will the diploma say? MSCF ONLINE CMU?

#### alain

##### Older and Wiser
Would you bet the same amount of money on the final placements for those applicants ?
IMO, placing students is not the school's responsibility.

#### AMANE

##### Active Member
This is sort of breaking news
http://www.quantnet.com/cmu-mscf-program-launches-online-degree/

Summary
• Starting officially in Fall 2012 but a few applicants can apply for Fall 2011
• Costs around $82K (25 courses times$3,228/course + fee)
• Can participate in live telecast + access to the same recorded video as regular students
• Can travel to NYC/Pittsburgh for internship interviews
• Need at least 2 years of relevant work experience
Andy, which one you would prefer to recommend , online or part-time or on campus program. taking into account what your experience in finance world.

#### qweretyq

##### Member
I must say that although I think the CMU brand name is worth quite allot , not rolling the savings back to the clients is rude.
On CMU side the costs of an online course are much lower yet they charge full price.

I was probably try and admit if the costs were lower.

BTW, what will the diploma say? MSCF ONLINE CMU?
No, for that price of tuition, they give you the same diploma so you can "hide" the fact it was online. However, on your resume if you have work experience at the same time as your MSCF program, then what are you going to say in your interview? You have to admit it was online...

#### myampol

##### Well-Known Member
No, for that price of tuition, they give you the same diploma so you can "hide" the fact it was online. However, on your resume if you have work experience at the same time as your MSCF program, then what are you going to say in your interview? You have to admit it was online...
Not exactly.

CMU offers their MSCF program both in Pittsburgh and at their center in downtown Manhattan, where classes meet simultaneously (late afternoon/evening) and are connected by video link.

You could pursue their program part-time in either place.

http://tepper.cmu.edu/master-in-computational-finance/the-mscf-program/part-time-mscf/index.aspx

Thus, it is possible to obtain the CMU degree while still working full-time in New York (or, perhaps less likely, in Pittsburgh.)

The online option opens it up to people who are located farther away (as their website indicates, you have to "Live more than 50 miles from the Pittsburgh (15213) or New York MSCF (10004) campus" in order to be eligible for their new online option.

http://tepper.cmu.edu/master-in-computational-finance/the-mscf-program/on-line-mscf/index.aspx

Indeed, one need not live anywhere near the location of an academic program in order to complete that degree, even where class attendance is required.

I know of someone who did an MBA at University of Chicago while living, and working full-time, in Los Angeles. For several years this individual took a "red-eye" flight from L.A. every Friday night, arriving in Chicago very early Saturday morning. Classes met all day on Saturday. Afterwards: straight to the airport for a Saturday evening flight back home to California.

Would you infer (incorrectly!) that this person had somehow obtained an "online" MBA from U. Chicago because the resume simultaneously indicates full-time employment in California at the same time as the MBA studies?

Finally, let's look at another issue: age discrimination (which is illegal in the USA, though it may be permitted in other jurisdictions.)

While I understand that in certain other countries it is customary to include your date of birth on the resume, it is NOT customary to do so in the USA. While employers may presume that they can estimate your year of birth by subtracting 22 years from the date of your undergraduate degree, there is no rule (in the USA) that says that you must indicate, on your resume, in what year you obtained your various degrees.

Individuals who are older than the norm may thus find it in their interest to omit such dates from their resume. This prevents being screened out (before being invited for a face-to-face interview) based upon age, which a US employer cannot do explicitly. Of course, an individual recruiter or hiring manager might do so "unconsciously".

I have a friend who received a Ph.D. from a top-tier Ivy-League university in 2008. However, this friend's undergraduate degree was conferred about a quarter-century earlier. If that date were included on the resume, prospective employers would infer (correctly) that this person is almost 50 years of age.

Where would recruiters at prospective employers route such a resume? More likely than not, directly into the (digital) dustbin, well before being selected for an interview.

Indeed, after removing the date on which the Bachelor's degree was concerned from the resume, as well as early career experience, this friend found prospective employers to be far more receptive.

If asked (by an interviewer in the USA), "When did you get your degree", an appropriate response would be,

"You aren't trying to determine my age, are you? Because age-discrimination in the USA is illegal, and you know that you are not allowed to ask my age as part of this interview process. Be assured that I do possess all the degrees listed on my resume, and if you do offer me a job and I accept it, then as part of your background-verification procedure, I'll be happy to supply further details, including the dates on which each of my degrees was conferred, so you can confirm everything."​

Thus, you can't infer from someone's resume that his/her degree must have been obtained online just because of simultaneous employment at a geographic location distant from the educational institution; indeed, the candidate could omit altogether the date on which his/her degree was conferred.

#### qweretyq

##### Member
Not exactly.

CMU offers their MSCF program both in Pittsburgh and at their center in downtown Manhattan, where classes meet simultaneously (late afternoon/evening) and are connected by video link.

You could pursue their program part-time in either place.

http://tepper.cmu.edu/master-in-computational-finance/the-mscf-program/part-time-mscf/index.aspx

Thus, it is possible to obtain the CMU degree while still working full-time in New York (or, perhaps less likely, in Pittsburgh.)

The online option opens it up to people who are located farther away (as their website indicates, you have to "Live more than 50 miles from the Pittsburgh (15213) or New York MSCF (10004) campus" in order to be eligible for their new online option.

http://tepper.cmu.edu/master-in-computational-finance/the-mscf-program/on-line-mscf/index.aspx

Indeed, one need not live anywhere near the location of an academic program in order to complete that degree, even where class attendance is required.

I know of someone who did an MBA at University of Chicago while living, and working full-time, in Los Angeles. For several years this individual took a "red-eye" flight from L.A. every Friday night, arriving in Chicago very early Saturday morning. Classes met all day on Saturday. Afterwards: straight to the airport for a Saturday evening flight back home to California.

Would you infer (incorrectly!) that this person had somehow obtained an "online" MBA from U. Chicago because the resume simultaneously indicates full-time employment in California at the same time as the MBA studies?

Finally, let's look at another issue: age discrimination (which is illegal in the USA, though it may be permitted in other jurisdictions.)

While I understand that in certain other countries it is customary to include your date of birth on the resume, it is NOT customary to do so in the USA. While employers may presume that they can estimate your year of birth by subtracting 22 years from the date of your undergraduate degree, there is no rule (in the USA) that says that you must indicate, on your resume, in what year you obtained your various degrees.

Individuals who are older than the norm may thus find it in their interest to omit such dates from their resume. This prevents being screened out (before being invited for a face-to-face interview) based upon age, which a US employer cannot do explicitly. Of course, an individual recruiter or hiring manager might do so "unconsciously".

I have a friend who received a Ph.D. from a top-tier Ivy-League university in 2008. However, this friend's undergraduate degree was conferred about a quarter-century earlier. If that date were included on the resume, prospective employers would infer (correctly) that this person is almost 50 years of age.

Where would recruiters at prospective employers route such a resume? More likely than not, directly into the (digital) dustbin, well before being selected for an interview.

Indeed, after removing the date on which the Bachelor's degree was concerned from the resume, as well as early career experience, this friend found prospective employers to be far more receptive.

If asked (by an interviewer in the USA), "When did you get your degree", an appropriate response would be,

"You aren't trying to determine my age, are you? Because age-discrimination in the USA is illegal, and you know that you are not allowed to ask my age as part of this interview process. Be assured that I do possess all the degrees listed on my resume, and if you do offer me a job and I accept it, then as part of your background-verification procedure, I'll be happy to supply further details, including the dates on which each of my degrees was conferred, so you can confirm everything."​

Thus, you can't infer from someone's resume that his/her degree must have been obtained online just because of simultaneous employment at a geographic location distant from the educational institution; indeed, the candidate could omit altogether the date on which his/her degree was conferred.
Yea what you are saying is theoretically true, but practically it is another matter. In the UChicago case you just mentioned, that interviewee can simple say what he did.

But if you say what you just quoted after doing an online MSCF, you aren't really building rapport with the interviewer are you? They can reject you for any reason and not say why. When I interviewed with SIG they said it was "policy not to give feedback"

I don't know if I'd take that \$80000 risk.
I'll wait till I see the placements from people who take it online to see how employers perceive the online degree.

#### Andy Nguyen

##### Member
I'll wait till I see the placements from people who take it online to see how employers perceive the online degree.
I doubt you will see any official numbers for this.
CMU MSCF placement data only covers full-time students. Part-time students are categorized as those having a job so while career services are available to them, they are not included in the placement survey.

The MSCF ONLINE program is primarily for part-time students and they will be treated as other part-time students. It's not coincidental that online students pay the same tuition as the part-time students in NYC. For this reason, it's very unlikely that you will see CMU creates another placement category for online students.

#### alain

##### Older and Wiser
I'll wait till I see the placements from people who take it online to see how employers perceive the online degree.
Again, it is not the school responsibility to place the students (any student, not even full time students).

#### coolharvard

##### Well-Known Member
If you have to tell your interviewer that the degree was done online, so what? The classes are the same, and you take the same exams, do the same projects, same homeworks. You still have to study hard to get good grades whether you take the classes on campus or away from campus.

But I agree the tuition is pretty high, but most companies will reimburse the tuition partially or fully. After all, this type of learning method is designed for people who are already working in real jobs.

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