CMU MSCF Columbia vs NYU vs CMU

[basushantanu]

I have read quite a few posts on the forum regarding Columbia and NYU and CMU. And I am really confused on which one is the best.

Columbia is having problems with placements. Is it mostly because of the program being housed in IE&OR rather than a business school/ no summer internships ? Are summer internships really that important ? Because to me, one of the biggest draws of Columbia was that I could finish the program by May 2010. The other thing I like about Columbia is that it has professors like Derman and Kani. Also, their courses like Vol Modeling/Experimental Finance are more focused on the finance aspect. Doesn't NYC as a location help a lot ? What about the Columbia brand name ? Lastly, is there a lot of competition between OR/FE people for the same jobs which might be detrimental ?

CMU has a great placement record. But the courses etc. focus too much on programming (4 courses on C++ !!). Is that a good thing? Secondly, except for Shreve, how is the faculty ? Any other important positives/negatives to look for at CMU ?

Lastly, NYU, as I have heard, has a good placement record similar to CMU (presumably, a small class size helps). However, I was not very impressed with their course structure. Any thoughts on the faculty ? How is the NYU brand name in the industry ?

Any other thoughts that would help me make a decision would be great.

Thanks a ton.
- Shantanu

 

[Uncle Max]

You should try to personally contact students/alumni from all programs you are interested in and ask questions. It will make your decision much easier.

Columbia has a one calendar year program, therefore there is no physical time for internship. Graduating by May 2010?.. Fast graduation is not that important now as it was two-three years ago. Actually it might be smarter to stick longer at school this days. Big-name professors?.. I'm not sure this is always a plus. They tend to be more theoretical, while the point of a masters program is to get practical skills in a short period of time. I never took neither Derman's nor Kani's class. May be they are great. You should ask Columbia students. It will be also very kind of you if you post your findings here.

CMU more IT focused program. Is that C++ very important?.. Depends, it certainly easier get a job on IT side then on finance side at big firm. However, carreer prospects of an IT quant (aka quant developer) are lower. You want to be in a position when you are telling people in your firm who are experts in C++ what to do and when you need it done.

NYU puts more emphasis on theoretical (math) part of the financial engineering. Again, I'm not sure if it's good or bad but I personally prefer more practial approach. 1 year of study is not enough to get very theoretical, PhD programs exist for that.

 

[vkaul]

so PHd engineering people are placed in the quant developer role which is IT rather than finance right?

 

[chrisd]

Just a quick comment on NYU (as I am a student there) - I don't think the program is especially theoretical. With the exception of Stochastic Calculus, most of the courses have been pretty practical/applications focused. There is a decent amount of work that involves programming in C++, but they don't really teach C++.

 

[Uncle Max]

so PHd engineering people are placed in the quant developer role which is IT rather than finance right?

The point is that it's much easier to find a job on IT side, because on financial side more money and competition is tougher. At least it used to be like that before. Nobody really gets "placed" anywhere. Some schools are helping their students to get interviews, but what kind of job to look and accept it or not is only up to you at the end of the day.

 

[Uncle Max]

Just a quick comment on NYU (as I am a student there)

As I said it's better to get a word from students of respective schools.

Chris, do you also use Matlab and VBA? What do you use more?

 

[chrisd]

Chris, do you also use Matlab and VBA? What do you use more?

Some assignments require you to use a particular language, while others leave it up to you what to use.

I'd say its been about 1/3 C/C++, 1/3 MATLAB, 1/3 whatever you want (could be VBA). That last 1/3 depends on the assignment (ie, if there's a lot of linear algebra, makes sense to use MATLAB), and the student's taste in programming.

 

[Stefan Zota]

Some assignments require you to use a particular language, while others leave it up to you what to use.

I'd say its been about 1/3 C/C++, 1/3 MATLAB, 1/3 whatever you want (could be VBA). That last 1/3 depends on the assignment (ie, if there's a lot of linear algebra, makes sense to use MATLAB), and the student's taste in programming.

An emphasis on C++ like Baruch or CMU is fine. NYU's approach is just as good.
Any MFE program will build on existent skills. Your inclination may be computational, pure math or financial strategy. I believe the market will have positions for all such backgrounds, so it is better to focus on your strongest points.

 

[basushantanu]

Thank you for all the responses to my query.

I have worked for a structuring desk at a European bank in Asia. Consequently, what I am looking for from the program is a greater theoretical knowledge of modeling and an insight into algortihmic trading. I would also like to learn more about programming in quantitative finance but not to the extent that CMU does (as I don't want to be a pure quant developer). I am looking for a job as a derivatives quant (with more focus on the financial strategy aspect rather than the IT one) or exotics/program trader.
So, I am trying to evaluate these programs from this view as mentioned above.

Chris, what do you make of the NYU faculty and how helpful is the NYU program in getting placements? Also, what would you say is the breakup in terms of quant developers/quant strategists/program traders/structurers etc. ?

Any other comments from current students in any of the three programs I mentioned would be highly appreciated.

 

[chrisd]

Chris, what do you make of the NYU faculty and how helpful is the NYU program in getting placements? Also, what would you say is the breakup in terms of quant developers/quant strategists/program traders/structurers etc. ?

NYU has a couple of courses you can take that relate to algo top by top names, I'd also say that NYU (at least superficially) has a bit more a buy-side emphasis than the other programs I looked at... as far as faculty, I've found them to be quite good, even though most of them have day jobs.

As far as placement goes, it's hard to say - the market right now for internships is rather thin, so most people can't be too picky. I don't know if things are going any better or worse at say, Baruch or CMU...

 

[financeguy]

Columbia has started allowing students to do a summer internship and finish coursework in the following semester. So that problem has been recognized and solved. The students now have a choice as to whether they want to jump in to a full-time position, or to take a summer position, finish up their degree in the next year, and then take a full-time offer.

Also, both Derman's and Kani's courses are great and very applied. I took courses taught by both. (I'm a Columbia student, btw)

You should try to personally contact students/alumni from all programs you are interested in and ask questions. It will make your decision much easier.

Columbia has a one calendar year program, therefore there is no physical time for internship. Graduating by May 2010?.. Fast graduation is not that important now as it was two-three years ago. Actually it might be smarter to stick longer at school this days. Big-name professors?.. I'm not sure this is always a plus. They tend to be more theoretical, while the point of a masters program is to get practical skills in a short period of time. I never took neither Derman's nor Kani's class. May be they are great. You should ask Columbia students. It will be also very kind of you if you post your findings here.

CMU more IT focused program. Is that C++ very important?.. Depends, it certainly easier get a job on IT side then on finance side at big firm. However, carreer prospects of an IT quant (aka quant developer) are lower. You want to be in a position when you are telling people in your firm who are experts in C++ what to do and when you need it done.

NYU puts more emphasis on theoretical (math) part of the financial engineering. Again, I'm not sure if it's good or bad but I personally prefer more practial approach. 1 year of study is not enough to get very theoretical, PhD programs exist for that.