Economics undergraduate student looking to become a quant.

[neoraiden]

I am currently at the university of Essex in the UK studying economics in my 2nd year. I first heard about high frequency trading and like a lot of people thought that's something I'd like to get into, now after doing some more research and realising that there is no set route, could anyone advise me on their best recommendation? I'm interested in the field of computational finance generally, just most of the mainstream sources I've seen focus on HFT.

I'm also considering other careers including as an economic consultant, but the idea of being able to create and work with computer models appeals to me more than consultancy.

 

[alain]

HFT is more about engineering than finance. It's really an arms race right now.

 

[neoraiden]

Does that mean I'm better off deciding on other quant roles because all they want are pure engineers or does it mean the actual work in job has become purely engineering? I was under the impression that while technological improvements are crucial to competitiveness, good strategies and modelling still would make a difference and be worth hiring people for.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Quants are also known as FE, financial engineers. As of lately, the demand has been more on engineers side than on financial side so it's no longer enough to get jobs with the little knowledge of Black-Scholes/stochastic/pricing. You need to be a competent engineer who can jump in and contribute on day one.
A popular saying among managers has been that they rather hire good engineers and train them finance than the other way around.

 

[neoraiden]

From the posts I've seen I noticed Dominic Connor said mostly engineers, but there are a few economists. While it may not give me a high chance of employment I'd like to know a realistic probability, I was considering whether getting a Phd within the field might help? I have an interest in learning so I don't mind having to do additional learning on top of an MFE program to improve as an engineer but I was hoping there might be someone who originally studied economics or knows someone that did in the field that could advise me?

If not thank you for the help, I would still consider trying to be a quant if there was a 5-10% chance of me getting a job because while it would be difficult to achieve it's still relatively possible if I work hard enough. A 1% or less probability with a Phd in a relevant topic would probably not be worth the effort. I would only consider becoming a quant if I can get into a very good MFE course.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

You are looking for a definite answer (specific x%) for a question that has no definite answer. You are taking chance regardless of whether you study an MFE or PhD with the worst case being spending several years, lot of money and no job. That happens more than people want to acknowledge.
It is also stated more than enough times that you should never do an PhD in the hope to find a job in the industry.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Economics is a bit away IMO from hard maths. I am no expert, but the skills for HFT are not what you learn in such a degree program.

Are you a decent programmer?

 

[Daniel Duffy]

A popular saying among managers has been that they rather hire good engineers and train them finance than the other way around.

This is/was a trend in other domains as well.

 

[alain]

you should read the book I linked below to learn more about the evolution of the equity trading marketplace in the US. It is a very good account of the history of it. It will also open your eyes to things that go on behind scenes on the electronic exchanges and HFT.

http://goo.gl/06Xyh

Again, this is an arm race and an engineering degree will serve you better than an economics degree. The way things are going, knowledge of network protocols, the physics of communication transmission, device driver programming, FPGAs, etc will help you more to break into HFT than economics.

 

[Barny]

If you want to work in HFT you need to be a sick programmer. Also, the university of essex is a little way off the standard most hedge funds look for.

 

[neoraiden]

It is also stated more than enough times that you should never do an PhD in the hope to find a job in the industry.

I wouldn't do it just to find a job as I like the idea of studying within in the field of computational finance, but being employable after helps. I understand your point about not spending all that time and money just to end up unemployed after.

Daniel Duffy I haven't taken up any serious programming till now, I am only familiar with the basics of Html and JavaScript from stuff I have taught myself when I was a lot younger and recently code academy. I was thinking of learning C++ in between now and the end of my third year, then augmenting it with what I leant in the MFE. However if they are looking for engineers first, then my programming knowledge definitely wouldn't compete with an engineer by that point. I have used Matlab, R and Stata as well. My aunt and many friends are engineers so getting help to learn C++ and the engineering aspect is possible, just not practical or quick.

Last point in question does anyone know what happens to most non initial engineers/programmers who learn on the course while getting a MFE and want to get a quant role (not just in HFT)? Are they all just struggling to find quant jobs and settling for other roles, or have they stopped applying?

Thanks for the book recommendation alain. I will still spend my time learning how to program for my own personal interest even if I don't go for a MFE. After receiving all of your feedback, I'm not quite sure what to do as I was strongly considering becoming a quant.

 

[neoraiden]

If you want to work in HFT you need to be a sick programmer. Also, the university of essex is a little way off the standard most hedge funds look for.

I was looking to go to a more reputable university for the MFE, I know many people who have gone from Essex to more reputable universities for other courses. This is a bit redundant though if my odds at getting a job are very unlikely just because I don't have an engineering background.

 

[Barny]

Let me be rudely frank: you don't have a hope in hell's chance of getting a decent job in finance unless you are a truly exceptional programmer/data analyst and have a track record to prove it.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

The concept 'programmer' can be specialised to

GUI developer
Database
Application (most quants in this category IMO)
Network
Tester
HPC and parallel programmer
Device drivers
System integrator
etc.
etc.

Each is a specialisation in its own right and takes years to become proficient in.

 

[JackF]

I hope you don't mind me asking but why do you want to be a quant? I mean there is lots of interesting areas in banking that centers around economics, some of which is fascinating. For me I love math, statistics and computing, as well as a curiosity of economics and psychology and I think finance would allow me to bring them together. If I ended up in a research position at a university that combined all of these I think I would be just as happy, maybe your interests and likes might lead you to other options that of less resistance?

I'm not nearly qualified enough to talk about your chances or anything but was curious of your motive

 

[alain]

I hope you don't mind me asking but why do you want to be a quant? I mean there is lots of interesting areas in banking that centers around economics, some of which is fascinating. For me I love math, statistics and computing, as well as a curiosity of economics and psychology and I think finance would allow me to bring them together. If I ended up in a research position at a university that combined all of these I think I would be just as happy, maybe your interests and likes might lead you to other options that of less resistance?

I'm not nearly qualified enough to talk about your chances or anything but was curious of your motive

That's easy. Check this out