FE and Work Experience

[QuantNeeds]

Hello I need some advice and direction on what I should do.

My academic profile:

Degree: BS, Finance and Operations Research (Management Science), Minor Mathematics
Overall GPA: 3.713<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Con: C+ in Calc 2

College Work Experience: Fund Accountant Intern, Procurement Intern
High school work experience: Accounting Assistant
Total of 3.5 years of experience
Direct work experience: none

GRE: I still have to take the exam.<o:p></o:p>
Pre-requisites should be complete: C++, Linear Algebra, Multivariable, Differential Equations.

Interests: Baruch, Claremont, Cornell, Michigan, UCLA
I was also interested in the doing a Ph.D. rather than the Masters but I believe only Claremont and Cornell offer this.

Issues: I am a recent graduate and need DIRECT work experience but I am having issues looking for a quant position at the moment as I am a) located in Miami b) do not have direct work experience and c) now competing with those laid off who have it. I am not sure if I should apply for an FE program or work first. But now FE applications have probably increased with many of whom have WS work experience. I feel trapped and don't know how to proceed. :-k :-ss

Thoughts or suggestions also appreciated.<o:p></o:p>

 

[bigbadwolf]

I am not sure if I should apply for an FE program or work first. But now FE applications have probably increased with many of whom have WS work experience. I feel trapped and don't know how to proceed.

If you read the Chinese I Ching (aka "The Book of Changes"), it often counsels waiting and not committing oneself. The situation today is sufficiently volatile, fluid, and uncertain as to make the idea of waiting, watching, and not committing oneself sage counsel. The finance industry is changing beyond all recognition - something roughly akin to the change from one geological era to another. If you can find some sort -- any sort -- of gainful employment, go for it and stick tight. Then from that comfortable vantage point survey what happens in the world of finance and financial employment. Wait for the dust to settle before you commit yourself.

 

[MikeK]

I agree with bigbadwolf. If you have a job now, count yourself lucky. You can use your time now to catch up on some pre-reqs at a local school (or online), brush up on your multivariable calculus, etc.

 

[QuantNeeds]

Work Experience

I agree with bigbadwolf. If you have a job now, count yourself lucky. You can use your time now to catch up on some pre-reqs at a local school (or online), brush up on your multivariable calculus, etc.

This is what I was thinking. I think I will hold off and apply for the 2010 program. Because I need to pay back some loans and I am concerned with the amount of applications that will be coming in for 2009 as well.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
However my biggest fear is that they type of work experience I get is not directly related to FE and this will count against me. :prayer:<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Over the summer I started to notice the limited opportunities so instead of settling I began to launch a business and take 2 pre-requisite courses.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Now things are worse and I am thinking about taking any job (such as a financial representative position), continue to work and expand my business, and potentially take partial differential equations in the fall (fall 09) and Stochastic Calculus Spring 2010.<o:p></o:p>

 

[bigbadwolf]

However my biggest fear is that the type of work experience I get is not directly related to FE and this will count against me.<o:p></o:p><o:p></o:p><o:p></o:p>

That should be among the least of your worries. Forget it -- life is too short to be worrying all the time. Many things are outside one's control. Try to make the best of the cards you've been dealt and sleep soundly.

 

[alain]

<o:p>...</o:p>Over the summer I started to notice the limited opportunities so instead of settling I began to launch a business and take 2 pre-requisite courses.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p> </o:p>
Now things are worse and I am thinking about taking any job (such as a financial representative position), continue to work and expand my business, and potentially take partial differential equations in the fall (fall 09) and Stochastic Calculus Spring 2010.<o:p></o:p>

If you started a business, concentrate on the business and forget about MFE. Do you want to be a Quant or to run the business you started? To be successful in your own business, you need to be into it 110%.

 

[Stefan Zota]

<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
However my biggest fear is that they type of work experience I get is not directly related to FE and this will count against me. :prayer:<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>

How can experience count against FE?
If it is not relevant, you don't mention it in your quantitative skills/experience section.

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

@ Stefan: how can experience count against being a quant?

Just ask James Simons. Any taint of Wall Street dogma means you're auto DQ'ed.

Unless of course there is some exception to that rule--because I'd love to speak with them.

If you mean for a degree though, you're right.

That said, it seems that the three best quants in history didn't even start being quants until they were at least 40 (James Simons, David E. Shaw, Emanuel Derman)

 

[Stefan Zota]

The examples that you've provided are exceptions not the rule. Looking only at the top 10-20 personalities in the field will not say much since their paths are different than other quants. We are talking about building a strong resume not a stellar, world-class researcher.

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Of course, I am wondering if it's even possible to become a top quant through the path of trial-by-fire by sheer work experience and the willingness to learn from on-the-job ups and downs rather than come from academia and work miracles, like so many firms seem to think happens.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

George Box is known to say "All models are wrong, some are useful"
In this case, we will paraphrase him to say "All work experience is good, some are more applicable"

 

[QuantNeeds]

Do you want to be a Quant or to run the business you started? To be successful in your own business, you need to be into it 110%.

I'm doing it to pay off the loans - that's what makes me 110% at the current moment. Plus I apply myself fully to any of my efforts.

 

[QuantNeeds]

George Box is known to say "All models are wrong, some are useful"
In this case, we will paraphrase him to say "All work experience is good, some are more applicable"

So Andy how can I compete with those who have the more applicable work experience?<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

 

[bigbadwolf]

Of course, I am wondering if it's even possible to become a top quant through the path of trial-by-fire by sheer work experience and the willingness to learn from on-the-job ups and downs rather than come from academia and work miracles, like so many firms seem to think happens.

I doubt any of the "top quants" have MFEs. They are probably all holders of Ph.D.s in mathematics or physics, with years of post-Ph.D. scientific or industrial research experience -- like Derman, for example. They are bringing a wealth of insights and perspectives it's not possible to acquire from the Street itself.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

So Andy how can I compete with those who have the more applicable work experience?

Remember that you are applying to study, not a job. Being a student has its advantages that the materials are still fresh for you. Other people have left school for years and most likely forget everything so it's not easy switching to the study mode for them.