First job after PhD

[UnemployedBum]

I recently completed a PhD in math and I am looking for entry-level jobs in quantitative finance etc. Unfortunately, I know next to nothing about the field and was hoping a few people on this forum could give me some advice regarding a couple of things.

My undergrad was a top 5 place in the US (pure math BSc , some CS coursework such as Java, C++, Python and some statistics). The grad school was somewhere around top 25-30. Perhaps more relevantly, my research has no real-world applications (except perhaps cryptography). Also, I have not done any internships in the past.

1. Should I be looking for internships rather than full-time entry-level jobs? If so, is it true that they prefer people currently enrolled in school for internships?

2. Also, if there any truth to the rumor that for some quant jobs they value Olympiad participation in high school even if you made it to the IMO camp but did not make the team? Or would it look weird if you put something from high school on your resume?

3. Any advice regarding preparation for jobs/internships would be greatly appreciated.

 

[KillingField]

Start off by being more precise by what it is that you're looking for: Do you want to be e.g. a trader, or a traditional (derivatives pricing) quant? As a general statement, though, yes you should be looking for an internship as the primary vector in, though it doesn't hurt to apply for full time positions where they are entry level (of course most do assume you have had a couple of years of experience or at least an intership or two). As for still being in school, it doesn't really matter, but it does help if you are still enrolled and from the right university: you'll have campus recruiting going on, and a lot of alumni and a good network to build upon. You'll better understand the dynamics of entry level recruiting that way: when the season is, and in particular when it ends (and at the end of the season you will typically only get leftover applicants, so it doesn't necessarily look good if you start applying at the wrong time, though if you're not from the target schools people will probably understand that you're not in the loop and won't count it against you - yes, recruiting is a funny business with all kinds of biases, acknowledged and subconscious).

 

[Liam]

Unfortunately, I know next to nothing about the field ... Perhaps more relevantly, my research has no real-world applications (except perhaps cryptography)

Go through the materials on this site then and a few others like Wilmott and quantlib and see A) what it's about and B) if it's for you. There are always ways around the issue with PhD topic, but don't just assume you'll fly through this stuff on account of being a maths grad - it is a very involved role in a fast paced industry.

Then look at the specifics of what each role is. Traders, risk managers and quants in general do vastly different roles and even then there's different types of each. There's probably 5 different types of quant I can think of off-hand and the levels of technical support or programming/modelling can vary. And then there's firm types (hedge fund and bank) and front and middle office roles where the pressures I've experienced varied vastly.

In terms of interviews, the first thing to do is to learn how to get across that you have thought the above through. Nailing the technical interview first preparation is straightforward, albeit can be tough and time consuming - reading lists are on this site, either you can do it or you can't.

The problem will be firstly getting interviews. What I'm getting is that you're about to leave school as you've finished the PhD. Find out what support you have e.g. can you tag along to job fairs on your old alumni. Also, regardless, you can apply for grad schemes which start soon. In terms of networking events, make sure you get what you want - getting valuable information on where to go and meeting firms and managers in said firms is ideal. Getting a bunch of business cards of other unemployed PhDs from some random event is not. Don't just look for internships, but try and get permanent roles and pretty much anything quant related through any source whether through grad schemes, recruiters, whatever. There is no hard and fast rule with junior roles I've been in the situation where as a firm we look specifically for graduates with little experience for some projects, so don't feel under pressure/obligated to go for internships.

The only other thing I will say about interviews is to use gumption and snap out of the 'pass the interview' mentality. Use interviews as an opportunity to get a feel for the role and the firm - even when firms try to mask piss poor environments, or mask the role being misadvertised etc you can see the signs from how people talk to you and what questions they ask. And be prepared to walk away from the situation if it becomes obvious the role isn't what you want. Others might disagree with this, but I feel that too much career advice given to graduates sees around getting the role as the be-all and end-all. Once you're sure the role is what you want, the main thing is to get across what you will be like to work with. Try not to come across as either 'got out of the bed and decided to see how I can use this PhD' or 'finance sounds like a party! Sign me up please!' and remember that while a dip in markets might be fascinating to you as a graduate, for someone in the industry it can be very, very stressful.