Looking for advice

[Mattmattmatt]

So I've been lurking on here and on Quantstart for a little bit now and thought I'd better ask what I need to ask, as I can't actually find an answer any other way.

Firstly, about me; I'm currently doing a conversion course (I guess we can call it that) in finance at Birkbeck University of London from which I'll graduate in early summer 2016. My first degree was in psychology (got a 2:1), so not exactly numerical. I didn't do A level maths or physics or anything like that either. Oh, and I also work in a dead end job at the moment, although I am applying for more finance-ier jobs now I'm studying.

So at the moment I am looking at being a quant and I notice that I am going to need an MSc in mathematical finance/financial engineering, or applied maths, or statistics from a top university, and I also might need a PhD (also from a top university). Now, everyone on here and elsewhere recommends (in the UK) Oxford, Imperial and Warwick and I have just bought a property in London so that realistically leaves me with Imperial or another London or Surrey based university.
And so:

- Have I got even the slightest chance of getting onto one of Imperial's MSc programmes given my background?
- Is it worth applying to UCL or KCL or....any other London or Surrey based uni for something similar?
- Given that an MFE costs around £25k, whilst applied maths costs about £10k, would that be equally good? Do I still stand a chance of getting in?
- Should I give up on the idea of becoming a quant because I don't have the proper skills?

TL;DR - Am I barking up the wrong tree?

Sorry for the long post.

Cheers,

Matt.
:D

 

[Daniel Duffy]

I would do a maths degree. Any other option might be too watery at this stage IMO.

Will you even get into a decent uni with no A levels in maths??

 

[Den Haag Finance]

To be frank, I think your chance of getting admitted to MathFin at Imperial is almost zero. Even if you do get in then you will have a very difficult time just to get a pass. Most people on MathFin at Imperial have undergraduate degrees in Mathematics and even they struggle in some of the courses.

 

[TehRaio]

Why do you want to be a quant? why not a financial manager which would require a regular Master in Finance (LSE, oxford, Cass etc...) would consider you and you wouldn't need to learn the hardcore mathematics.

 

[bigbadwolf]

- Have I got even the slightest chance of getting onto one of Imperial's MSc programmes given my background?
- Is it worth applying to UCL or KCL or....any other London or Surrey based uni for something similar?
- Given that an MFE costs around £25k, whilst applied maths costs about £10k, would that be equally good? Do I still stand a chance of getting in?
- Should I give up on the idea of becoming a quant because I don't have the proper skills?

Nope, nope, nope, yep.

 

[Yike Lu]

I typically don't like to discourage people, but I have to agree. If being a quant is your end goal, then you've seriously mis-invested your time and money, not once but twice.

 

[pingu]

My young friend, not everything is lost despite what people here are saying. Don't feel discourage but don't expect to become a Quant via school. You should concentrate in psychology, statistics and dabble into behavioral economics and game theory. Then, you will be fine.

Pure maths will take you nowhere, just a lot of suffering.

 

[TraderJoe]

Nope, Nope, Nope, Yep.

 

[Mattmattmatt]

Firstly, thanks for all the replies. I guess that means no quant for me - I thought as much, but now I know for sure. What alternatives would you kind sirs/ladies suggest?

Why do you want to be a quant? why not a financial manager which would require a regular Master in Finance (LSE, oxford, Cass etc...) would consider you and you wouldn't need to learn the hardcore mathematics.

I don't mind learning the maths really, but naturally I would rather like to go to a decent uni next and then get a decent job at the end. Your suggestion sounds all right.

My young friend, not everything is lost despite what people here are saying. Don't feel discourage but don't expect to become a Quant via school. You should concentrate in psychology, statistics and dabble into behavioral economics and game theory. Then, you will be fine.

Pure maths will take you nowhere, just a lot of suffering.

Do you mean going down the behavioural route will get me into the quant business? Or that I should work in that field? Because, to be frank, the reason I didn't take psychology further after graduating (I did get offered a PhD place but...long story short there's no way it'd be do-able) is because much of that stuff is very wishy-washy.

Cheers,

Matt.
:D

 

[Yike Lu]

I don't have any useful alternatives because it's not clear what you actually want to do.

 

[Mattmattmatt]

I don't have any useful alternatives because it's not clear what you actually want to do.

Sorry about that, I didn't think to write that. I like/d the quant idea because of the modelling and researching side of things. I was considering doing the CFA and then working as an analyst - again because of the research side of things, but being a quant sounded cooler. Both roles seem to pay pretty well too.
Well paying research-y roles then?

Cheers,

Matt.
:D

EDIT: On a sort of related note - what do people think about CASS (City Uni) for Finance based MScs and KCL's Financial Mathematics? And the CQF?

 

[bigbadwolf]

Sorry about that, I didn't think to write that. I like/d the quant idea because of the modelling and researching side of things. I was considering doing the CFA and then working as an analyst - again because of the research side of things, but being a quant sounded cooler. Both roles seem to pay pretty well too.
Well paying research-y roles then?

That was before 2008 (those were the days ...). Today a quant is a glorified scientific coder. Those "well-paying research-y roles" bring back tears of nostalgia for they are, alas, only of historical interest. Mostly dead and buried.

EDIT: On a sort of related note - what do people think about CASS (City Uni) for Finance based MScs and KCL's Financial Mathematics? And the CQF?

KCL is another "me-too" program and likewise for Cass. Your approach, incidentally, is all wrong. You lack the basic math equipment for quant. When you have your math A-levels come back and ask again. Otherwise this is all idle chit-chat (which takes place all too frequently on this forum).

 

[Yike Lu]

Yeah, there are pretty well established paths to doing business modelling and research, the classic equity analyst role. CFA will help for sure. Quant is much more specialized, more hard math involved. If you don't enjoy probability and stochastic calculus (among other things), you're not cut out to be a quant.

Note I'm not really qualified to advise on it, and this isn't the best forum for advice on the classic equity analyst role.

 

[Mattmattmatt]

Again, thanks for the help. I can look up what you have suggested myself - it sounds more reasonable as, as people have suggested, I don't have the skills to pay the bills.

What's a "me too" program?

Cheers.

 

[pingu]

What's a "me too" program?

the ones you don't want to attend.

 

[bigbadwolf]

What's a "me too" program?

The kind that are hurriedly put together on shoestring budgets, with inadequate resources and crud "faculty," to offer themselves as alternatives to the strong programs. Their sole raison d'etre is to make a bit of money.

 

[Mattmattmatt]

Yeah...that kind puts me in a catch 22. I can't study further at a good uni, and I can't get a good job with going to a good uni.

I'd better get on with studying A level maths (as well as my current course)!

Cheers.

 

[TehRaio]

if you want answers regarding a regular finance career wallstreet oasis is a good forum for that.
check them out.

 

[Bazarao]

The kind that are hurriedly put together on shoestring budgets, with inadequate resources and crud "faculty," to offer themselves as alternatives to the strong programs. Their sole raison d'etre is to make a bit of money.

Are you implying Cass is not a good choice for Finacial Mathematics MSc for a good career in Quant or any in the financial services?

 

[bigbadwolf]

Are you implying Cass is not a good choice for Finacial Mathematics MSc for a good career in Quant or any in the financial services?

Rephrase your question: 1) Where are the jobs? 2) Who is getting the jobs that do exist? If it's Cass, go for it. Remember that there are too many master's programs in financial math and only some of them are placing their grads in real jobs.