Math Subject GREs

[IlyaKEightSix]

I just recently found out from a Google statistician on linkedIn that Stanford requires the Math subject GREs. Here's my conundrum:

I never took analysis or abstract algebra or complex analysis. I ordered the "Cracking the Math GRE 3rd edition" from amazon but heard that it has many typos.

Is there a good book for the Math GRE subject test for those that never took these courses? Or am I absolutely screwed now that I graduated undergrad?

 

[doug reich]

I would guess you're screwed. Caveat: I never took it, but the many people I know who took at my school it did not think it was hard, but it definitely required a lot of the courses they took. Lucky for you, it is all the lower-level stuff, not the junior and senior year courses they took as math majors.

Call the school and see why exactly they want that GRE and what you should do not being a math major and all. That is, why are they requesting the Math GRE for engineers and whatnot.

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Well, Stanford said they're not waiving it. Will call them later today, maybe...

 

[dstefan]

I see little reason to require taking the Math GRE Subject test if one pursues a financial engineering program. There is little use for abstract algebra or even complex analysis to justifying learning those topics for the sole purpose of taking the Math Subject test.

 

[bigbadwolf]

I would guess you're screwed. Caveat: I never took it, but the many people I know who took at my school it did not think it was hard, but it definitely required a lot of the courses they took. Lucky for you, it is all the lower-level stuff, not the junior and senior year courses they took as math majors.

It's mostly a speed test in calc topics with some very elementary questions on complex functions and abstract algebra (and I do mean elementary). As far as I'm concerned, it's just another meaningless test as it doesn't even test math aptitude and depth of understanding of math majors.

 

[CGiuliano]

where else are you applying?

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Well this is all for class of 2010 stuff, but I'm trying to shoot the moon. With a 3.32 cumulative/3.50 major undergrad GPA and subpar quant GREs (770, 87%), I need to complete a master's program, or at least have one blowout semester in a new place before I'm able to show that I'm worthy of places like Berkeley/MIT/Stanford/etc, despite the fact that I aced grad courses taught by MIT professors at Lehigh (and I mean ACED).

Here's the thing--I want to have a solid shot at the top 3 quant firms in the world--RenTec, DESCo, and Google. (According to Jim Simons, Google is the biggest quant firm in the world.)

I hope I don't sound arrogant, but I want to have my cake and eat it too, in that I want a place in which I can have enough money not to worry about a price tag, and a place in which I can have an intellectually stimulating environment, without the stress over hours or meetings or politics. The only places that are such are where the quants run the show, and thus the environment is collegiate, rather than when they're kicked by some business official from upstairs.

The problem is that I'm wondering whether or not my undergrad GPA has doomed me as it stands. I get good recommendations readily enough.

 

[Ergodic]

I never took analysis or abstract algebra or complex analysis. I ordered the "Cracking the Math GRE 3rd edition" from amazon but heard that it has many typos.

Is there a good book for the Math GRE subject test for those that never took these courses? Or am I absolutely screwed now that I graduated undergrad?

The Princeton Review "Cracking..." book is fine, in spite of a few typos. It is helpful in some ways, but your main preparation should be from the four past exams (*real* exams) that are out there on the internet. UCSB provides scanned pdfs of three of them: Index of /mathclub/GRE , and the fourth can be obtained on ETS' website.

There is also a discussion forum for the exam (mathematicsgre.com), but for God's sake: do NOT freak out over this exam. You say that you have no background in Analysis, Algebra, or Complex Variables. Yes, this will prohibit you from knocking out a few easy questions that a student trained in pure mathematics would have. However, instead of seeing this as a setback, you can view it as an opportunity: most test takers do NOT finish all of the problems, so you can use the time you would have spent on the "pure" questions to improve the quality of your work on the other answers. I, for one, missed eighteen questions on the exam (8 wrong, 10 omitted)...and still scored in the 88th percentile.

I agree with BBW that this is a silly test (although I wouldn't say my training was completely useless, as I thoroughly enjoyed reviewing some topics in calculus and differential equations.) You have better things to do with your time than trying to cram some higher math for a few extra points on an exam that has little direct relation to financial engineering. Algebra and Analysis are beautiful subjects--to be slowly digested, not forced down one's throat in a matter of months.

Digressions aside, here is what you need to do if you determine the Subject Test is worth your time and you are willing to commit yourself to the task:
*Obtain all four real past exams.
*Go through them ALL under timed conditions and do NOT freak out if you bomb the first few.
*After scoring each test, go ahead and do all the problems you didn't get to while on the clock, to give yourself maximum exposure
*Create your own training program. Your practice problems should consist mostly of Calculus, Precalculus, Differential Equations, and Linear Algebra problems, drawn from the texts you used in your classes.
*Do a little bit every day, or at least every week. DO NOT CRAM.
*Use the LeDuc (PR, "Cracking...") book sparingly, and STAY AWAY from the other garbage prep books out there (e.g. Barron's, REA.)
*Aim high, but also consider schools other than Stanford. I don't know about their MFE, but the impressions I got were that you need at least 90% for their Stats or Pure Maths programs.

Hope this helps.

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

I'm going to go to Rutgers for a stat's masters (in the greatest likelihood now that I no longer have time to look for work since I'm at an unpaid internship which has no math). I want in for a PhD for the 2010 class in statistics, not an MFE. Statistics should allow me to go either to top quant funds (ahem, STATISTICAL arbitrage) or the top Silicon Valley firms (yay Tesla Roadsters and green trees and sunny weather!)

I want a truly quantitative career, doing what I love without worrying about money, just for something other than writing research papers for academics. Wall Street has little to do with it.

Thank you for the advice, though.

Edit: I intend to take this exam in December. So I'm not cramming, but as with my favorite Professor Thiele's courses, preparing WAY ahead of time (I started her homeworks as soon as she announced them when they were due a week in advance).

 

[alain]

Here's the thing--I want to have a solid shot at the top 3 quant firms in the world--RenTec, DESCo, and Google. (According to Jim Simons, Google is the biggest quant firm in the world.)

Why don't you try to do something really creative and original while you are at school? All these places are going to ask you: what do you bring to the table that they can't get anywhere else? The grade is not as important if you do something creative that puts you above your peers.

I hope I don't sound arrogant, but I want to have my cake and eat it too, in that I want a place in which I can have enough money not to worry about a price tag, and a place in which I can have an intellectually stimulating environment, without the stress over hours or meetings or politics. The only places that are such are where the quants run the show, and thus the environment is collegiate, rather than when they're kicked by some business official from upstairs. The problem is that I'm wondering whether or not my undergrad GPA has doomed me as it stands.

there is politics everywhere. If I were you, I would stop whining and complaining and do something about it to prove your worth.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Well this is all for class of 2010 stuff, but I'm trying to shoot the moon. With a 3.32 cumulative/3.50 major undergrad GPA and subpar quant GREs (770, 87%), I need to complete a master's program, or at least have one blowout semester in a new place before I'm able to show that I'm worthy of places like Berkeley/MIT/Stanford/etc, despite the fact that I aced grad courses taught by MIT professors at Lehigh (and I mean ACED).

Somebody needs to rain on your parade and of all people here, at the risk of chastising, I'm more than willing to do so.
Many moons ago, I thought I was all that. I just graduated with double degree in Math and CS with a cumulative GPA of 3.95. I told my math professor that I would shoot for MIT, Harvard, etc...the moon in your word. She quickly brought me down to earth by raining me with a dose of reality.
By all account, I was one of the best students in my department and the much loved student of all of my professors. The next step would be to go out there and conquer the world, so I thought.
What my professor (an Ivy league PhD grad herself) did was to show me the world is much bigger than the pond I lived in. Not going to MIT is not a sin, a crime or a shame. You are not always as good as you think you are. No matter what people tell you, you ain't all that.

A few years later, looking back, that was the best advice I received in all my young and ignorant life. My professor did not just go the easy way by just writing another letter of recommendation and then let me fall hard on my face when I go out there.

So my advice to you is to talk to your MIT professor. If she is as good as you have been praising, she would stop you from even mentioning MIT. Of all people, she should know where your talent level compared to the multi-talented kids out there. Ask her to be honest with you and I pray that she will.

You sound very cocky, in a bad sense because you have not faced the cold reality yet. You rather want to learn in while you in school than to get the world laugh at you.

And for the last time, don't take the whole piano-teaching mother story as a prelude to your rants. I know many others who went through worse and came out fine.

When you feel depressed, watch "The Pursuit of Happyness" for inspiration.
My advice is free so don't make the same mistakes I made.

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Oh, she told me that my numbers definitely aren't as up there as the best ones in the box.

At the same time, I've seen my fair share of recruiters say:

"Ivy-league/super Cali school with nosebleed GPAs only!"

Is that all bluffing and blustering?

I know I ain't all that. There's a bunch of people out there who have higher GPAs, got started on the important stuff earlier, had better parenting, and the list goes on.

That said, what am I supposed to do?

 

[doug reich]

That said, what am I supposed to do?

Is that a joke? Read the thousands of words people have written to you in the last year: go out and bust your *** at what you're good at. If you're not good at anything, then learn something and get good at it.

Second Andy: Gold plated degrees only get you as far as the front door. Just yesterday, my boss was telling me that when they were looking for people to do useful lab work at a major tech firm he worked at, they would pick the Northeastern grads over the MIT grads (when the decision came down to those two). Why? Northeastern students had real experience, not just book smarts.

 

[Ergodic]

That said, what am I supposed to do?

Simple: unplug your internet connection and get to work.

There comes a point (probably several) in a man's life when he needs to break free from the comfort of the "advice and planning" phase and take action. After nearly 500 posts here, I'm guessing you have received all the information and advice you need at this stage in your career, so believe me when I say--with all compassion--leave this place and train relentlessly...for the GRE, for your Master's thesis, with any relevant quant text...only you can choose your priorities. Don't come back for a year, or at least until the end of this coming semester--and not without the fresher perspective that only discipline and action can provide.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I hope Ilya take ergodic's advice literally and when he comes back, bless his heart, have some useful stories to share with us.