MFin Vs. MFE

[the exalted one]

First off I just wanted to express how bad*ss and helpful this site is. I give thanks to all those who use this site and obviously to its creator(s).

I have some quick questions

Will an MFE student be a fat computer "techie" type dude that sits at a cubicle and types away on a computer all day? I don't mean a model contest, I mean will he be the front man who closes serious deals (like a server at a restaurant), or will he be the guy who is thrown in the kitchen never to be seen by guests at the restaurant (a greasy pimply cook).

Are there people skills/persuasive skills/selling skills involved? Or is it all about being a reclusive ghost that is never heard or seen from, who walks around like Rainman muttering to himself, like most engineers I've encountered?

The MFin at Princeton has beautiful placement rates for their program. What would be the underlying difference between an MFin and an MFE?

It seems MFE's are popular and trendy due to their lucrativity; are MFin's becoming obsolete?

How much are computers involved with an MFE and the job you would receive with an MFE?

I feel computer-heads are a special breed, and I'm not one of them. I am rather talented at speaking and writing (this is a poor example) and have an encyclopedic type of brain like a lawyer has. Therefore, I know my finance and economics and enjoy absorbing info any opportunity I get. So would an MFin be more in my direction to assist me, or would an MFE?

Lastly, the type of job prospects with an MFE..... how many hours does one work a week starting out....and after a few years in the game?

Thank y'all very much. I appreciate you guys taking the time. I have just became a member btw, and promise I will reciprocate and help out other people who have questions I may be able to answer both presently and as I progress through my classes.

K Dubya F

P.S. I've noticed a lot of people talking about all the cash up for grabs out on the "Street," but if you're only pursuing money, that's not going to bring you diddly squat. Only through love can you conquer.

As Emerson or Thoreau (can't remember) puts it: "Success comes to those who are too busy to be looking for it."

 

[Yuriy]

MFE is not always a computer "techie" type Quant Developers tend to program more, but people in other areas even get to work on deals or models.

If you dont feel like programming, then MFin might be the way to go. There is need in people who understand finance and economics. MFE does not cover "how things work" in terms of exchanges, markets, world and country economy. I think MFin will still be around for a long time because, like I said, somebody needs to be able to work on mergers, acquisitions, and other types of things that require less computation.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

First off I just wanted to express how bad*ss and helpful this site is. I give thanks to all those who use this site and obviously to its creator(s).

I think this site is helpful, not bad*ass

Will an MFE student be a fat computer "techie" type dude that sits at a cubicle and types away on a computer all day? I don't mean a model contest, I mean will he be the front man who closes serious deals (like a server at a restaurant), or will he be the guy who is thrown in the kitchen never to be seen by guests at the restaurant (a greasy pimply cook).

Too much stereotype. MFE grads end up in many different roles.

It seems MFE's are popular and trendy due to their lucrativity; are MFin's becoming obsolete?

What lucrativeness? Making 100K in NYC is hardly enough to keep up with the rent and inflation.

I feel computer-heads are a special breed, and I'm not one of them. I am rather talented at speaking and writing (this is a poor example) and have an encyclopedic type of brain like a lawyer has. Therefore, I know my finance and economics and enjoy absorbing info any opportunity I get. So would an MFin be more in my direction to assist me, or would an MFE?

Forget about MFIN or MFE. Go for an MBA. Sounds like you can really excel there. You can BS clients all day and still make money.

Lastly, the type of job prospects with an MFE..... how many hours does one work a week starting out....and after a few years in the game?

If you have to ask about the working hours, then....
I know people who work 10 hours or more everyday. The closer to the front office, the longer hours you work.
Actuarial and accountants have it much easier. they can do 9-5

P.S. I've noticed a lot of people talking about all the cash up for grabs out on the "Street," but if you're only pursuing money, that's not going to bring you diddly squat. Only through love can you conquer.

I'm not sure who you have been talking/listening to but I don't remember anyone here talking about easy money up for grabs. If you read this forum carefully, we've been talking about Bear Stearns and how hard it is to land a job in this market condition.

By the way, I suggest that you get the free guides from the Master reading list for MFE on my signature. It has Mark Joshi's What do Quants do guide and Michael Page's guide.

 

[the exalted one]

I see.. Princeton's deal sounds like a good gig. I didn't mean to throw out stereotypes and all, I apologize. I was just trying to gauge exactly what the average quant is like. Competition obviously causes people of all different shapes and sizes to emerge, however, there are still ultimately common similarties I am sure that quants share. My aim is to assess whether I would fit this mold, or if my type would be more useful somewhere else.

What is a business job that requires people relations, excellent quantitative abilities, salesmenship, and competitiveness?

Thanks guys. I'm only 21 and live in the ghetto amongst crackheads and bums. If I had someone of a similar stature to consult, I wouldn't bother you guys.

K

 

[VladimirBunicu]

I was just trying to gauge exactly what the average quant is like. Competition obviously causes people of all different shapes and sizes to emerge, however, there are still ultimately common similarties I am sure that quants share. My aim is to assess whether I would fit this mold, or if my type would be more useful somewhere else.
What is a business job that requires people relations, excellent quantitative abilities, salesmenship, and competitiveness?

:-k Talking about stereotypes and evolution of quants, Tim Grant in his exclusive interview elaborates on many topics of interest, like what roles do quants take in todays world.
Below is an excerpt, but read the whole interview, it explains many things.

The impressive characters were invariably PhDs who were transferring their experience in applied physical sciences or mathematics into the finance area. They tended to be segregated for the most part from the traditional sales and trading roles and there’s some notion that they’d be hunched in front of a computer in a dark corner of the bank putting together intricate and intractable models to support the trading desk.

The idea that a quant might actually speak to a client was almost laughable. Though obviously a caricature that image was rooted in reality. This issue now is that this particular reality no longer applies.

 

[bigbadwolf]

What is a business job that requires people relations, excellent quantitative abilities, salesmenship, and competitiveness?

The qualities that go towards making for a good salesman (gregariousness, extraversion, affability, and playing hard and fast with the truth) tend to be at odds with the qualities required for quant work (precision, carefulness in speech, introversion and intensity). Even when a quant does deal with a client, that client is probably going to be someone on the same wavelength, of similar calibre. Generally when a job asks for "excellent people skills," they mean someone who can put up with idiots the whole day, not intimidate or antagonise anyone with his own intelligence or erudition, be "tactful" and "diplomatic" (i.e. tell lies and half-truths) and in general blend smoothly into any crowd.

 

[alain]

I have a very silly question which if answered , will give me a lot of satisfaction-

So who ends up making more money - MFin or MFE??

It depends on a lot of things. This question doesn't have a trivial answer.

 

[sankhya]

will somebody please shed light on Mfin at IIT Chicago,their curriculum and empolyment stats...

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Look...I'll say it before, I'll say it again:

A good employer will teach you the finance. Different employers will look for different things on balance sheets and income statements, and you can learn that from your employer.

What your employers cannot teach you are: the critical/analytical thinking, the computation skills, and the communications skills.

You do *not* need an MFin to be able to discount a present value or connect the dots on accounting statements. Heck, you don't even need a business degree. A course or two will suffice (I took four because I wanted to get as much finance as a finance major...I should have taken more math and stat courses in hindsight, because 3 out of 4 were worthless and the derivatives I'd already seen before). In terms of communications, if you can stand up in front of an audience and give a clear, well enunciated presentation, then you're good as gold (this is not a trivial thing to do...at Lehigh, almost all of my classmates read off of a powerpoint computer in a corner).

The thing that no employer can really teach you is the technical aspects. If you go get an education, learn the technical things. Build a toolbox of analytical and computational tools.

Yes, in M&A or boardroom brawling or whatever, you're not going to use stochastic calculus.

But guess what? If you can plow through those accounting statements faster than any business major because of your computational skill set, great. Furthermore, what if said employer is a small hedge fund running multiple strategies? What if he needs someone to at one second value or structure a product, and the next second, plow through balance sheets?

I will tell you right now that if you're good as an MFE, you can go to wikipedia and look up the usual finance bullshit and learn it in ten minutes if you could sustain the boredom of doing so. It isn't hard. However, it is excruciatingly boring, which is why I got Bs in my finance courses (except derivatives, in which I got a 103%), and got an A in a quant optimization course.