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middle office jobs

Joined
6/19/08
Messages
115
Points
26
What are the middle office jobs available for a person with PhD in quantitative displine but no work experience in finance? Are most of these jobs in risk management? Or I can go to in structures or portfolio management or middle oficce quant ( if that exists) without work experience?
 
The best way in your situation is to contact a recruiter who will tell you what to do and what your options are. In general, you will need to have some financial knowledge before going to the interviews. The days when any PhD will work to get in a door on the Street are gone. It's much more competitive now.
 
Many investment banks have an in house quantitative modeling group. They hire PhDs who code proprietary models used by front office traders. What they do is to update, build models and supports the users.
For example, Deutsche Bank has a quant group that does just that. They build a set of analytic tools that many of their trading desks use.
If you have a PhD and think mid office is where you prefer to stay, then you ought to look into many of the model validation groups. Barclays also have a similar group that hires quants.
 
Thanks Andy. So the model validation group same as structurers group?
 
the structurers usually sit alongside bankers, traders and their task is a lot more products and sales oriented (i.e. front office in nature). Ability to structure deals that can be priced correclty and placed in the market is important. I would say to succeed as structurers requires a balance between quantitative skills and products/market knowledge.
 
Vkaul said:
Thanks Andy. So the model validation group same as structurers group?


No, they are different. Model validation is backtesting, questioning assumptions, trying to break models, trying to see when they will give weird answers, trying to uncover when things will go wrong before they actually do, etc. It's mandated by the gov that banks do this (as well as in the banks' own self-interest), so these groups tend to persist through the layoffs, and most of the people I know in them are smart, less stressed, and less rich than the front office. Often, it's the same group as the model-building group, but not always at the very biggest banks, where they are sometimes aligned with risk management groups instead. Better know how to read other's code.

Structuring deals is more front-office-ish. It's about creating business, getting the deal done, getting what the customer wants to the customer, with the correct timing, tax consequences, etc. It's more "pure" financial engineering. Tends to be high-paying and more volatile with banking cycles, in my view. Better know how to write code, which others in the validation group will read.
 
Thanks for the info. Model validation, building and risk management are the areas to look in middle office. These are what are called buy-side middle office jobs?
 
Mutual funds, pension funds, insurance companies are typical buy side. Are these companies you want to work for?
If you aim to work in mid office, buy side or sell side matters little to you.
If you work in an investment bank which has buy side/sell side and also acts as market maker, it's hard to say exactly where you at. Your models can be used by prop desk, flow desk, sale desk, internal hedge fund, asset management group.

I think you are a perfect candidate who can benefit from some of the books I have in my reading list among which I highly recommend The Complete Guide to Capital markets for Quantitative Professionals.
Master reading list for MFE - QuantNetwork - Financial Engineering Forum
 
Thank you Andy for your reference. Finance is certainly an ocean and it is hard to pick a role which actually is a good match for one's skills. As suggested by you I will be going through that list. I especially mentioned risk is because you mentioned in one post that most of the middle office jobs are in risk management. Is that true?
 
I don't know in which context did I say that but I would rephrase it as "most risk management jobs are in mid office". There are more to mid office choices than just RM.
In any case, 9/10 people would prefer to start in/move to/stay in front office so it's more of a desired choice. I don't know much about MO to advise you on.
Definitely go through the books and see what position and life style fit you best. Do what makes you happy.
 
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