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MSMF programs - My grades are... - Risk Management

Saidice

Saidice

Joined
6/17/11
Messages
20
Points
11
Hello everyone!

So I'm currently a sophomore B.S Mathematics student (junior in the fall) at the University of North Texas and I'm interested in becoming a quant (I think). Originally I had planned to become an actuary because risk management is what i'm interested in, but as I read more, I realized that actuaries have pretty much no place outside of insurance (I am interested in credit and liquidity risk as well as the risk-tailoring of portfolio decision making ETC). I had looked into becoming a quant a long time ago but didn't realize how heavy of an emphasis one could place on risk management. Am I mistaken in my decision, as in, do quants actually have a significant role in RM for large companies, banks, and even consulting firms for large-scale, high-volume individual investors of hedge funds? From what I've read it sounds like this is exactly what I wanted to do as an actuary, I was just mistaken about which career provided those options.

Finally, my grades are only lackluster (I have a 3.2). I hear that the graduate programs for MSMF are really competitive, but I was wondering, for example @UChicago, if I scored well on my GRE and had an internship, would I not be completely underwhelming on my application? If so, are there any schools out there with a solid emphasis on RM that have decent acceptance rates?

Thanks so much,

Jordan
 
NYU-Poly has a risk management track in their MFE program. I hear they are a good option if your grades are not superb.
 
Don't want to discourage you but perhaps you should consider raising your GPA. I haven't seen may people on the tracker get into good MFE programs with a 3.2.

Unless you have some other things that can highly distinguish you from the rest of the applicants.
 
Dismantler,

I figured as much. My freshman year I did poorly in cal 3 and linear algebra; I've considered retaking them. They would provide a significant GPA boost.
 
I don't know how courses that are retaking look in the USA but it Canada it looks bad and doesn't do anything for you.

Try taking some grad/upper level undergrad courses and trying doing well in them to get a boost. Or take some courses in Eco or Finance.
 
UNT ehhh? You ever take a class with Dr Q?
 
I'm a TAMS alum, I had Dr. Q for precal, cal1, and diffeq. Tell him I said hi if you see him.

Risk management is a growth area for the industry, with increasing regulation and scrutiny. I'm not really qualified to talk about it, though.

As far as dealing with career/MFE prospects, good grades in upper level courses help, internship helps, good GRE helps, genuine interest in the field helps, networking helps, CFA Level 1 can help. Whether or not this all adds up to an admit into a good program or getting into the career straight off, depends on you.

Opportunities in TX include energy trading operations down in Houston, and a firm called (ironically) Q Investments in Fort Worth. If you get CFA Level 1, you can attend one of the events and there should be people from all kinds of local firms around. My impression of them, however, is they are generally more traditional MBA ish types and less quant oriented.
 
Yike,

Dr. Q is my degree adviser! I have an appointment with him next week to discuss my desire to change from becoming an actuary to a quant; I will happily tell him you said hello!

Thank you for all the information guys. I suppose the question of whether or not I will be a qualified applicant is pretty much mine to determine. If I work hard and keep raising my grades, I think i'll be in a good position!

However, I'd still like to know what Wall Street thinks of RM Quants!

Thanks
 
Saidice said:
How do I go about getting my CFA? Do I need work experience?
Click to expand...
4 years relevant fin work.ex to get the regular membership and charter... you can get affiliate membership without work-ex tho
 
My personal experience: I took and passed the level 1 test. If you really study and understand the material, you will gain a much better feel for finance and you will be able to talk about it much more intelligently than if you have not.

As far as passing all 3 levels, I don't think it's terribly important.
 
Q: You walk into a roomful of students. How do you know which ones passed the CFA?
A: They'll tell you

I'm currently tackling level 3. CFA isn't very important at the entry level (or any level really...) You're only allowed to take the level 1 when your'e a senior, so you have plenty of time. Only a handful of shops specifically push for CFAs (I know BlackRock does. Berkeley MFE is the only program outspokenly advocating it)

Generally speaking, CFA is a nice-to-have qualification. It has very little to do with quants, so it may not be relevant for a quant's day-to-day task. CFA helps you gain a comprehensive view of the players in financial markets and their objectives (subsequently affect their trading behaviors). Such knowledge is more useful on the buyside, where you have to make trading decisions, than it is on the sellside, where you mostly deal with client orders and hedging. A heavy emphasis on portfolio management is placed on level 3, and it primarily builds on the foundation (L1 and L2) to determine how you as a PM should manage client money given their unique limitations and requirements (return objective, risk tolerance, tax, time horizon, legal, liquidity, and extenuating circumstances.) Again, none of it will be useful until you're the big wig making that million dollar trade, and you won't get there unless you go through the analyst / associate program like everyone else. So don't bank on it helping your job search or application. It'll only act as a tie breaker given all else equal.

A less mentioned benefit is the network, which very few entry level students seem to be taking advantage of. Like any alumni / professional clubs, CFA is a cult. It's a place where people of similar interests gather around and talk about their boring days over drinks. It's a conversation starter in the elevator. It's something you mention to a charterholder (probably more senior) who will look at you with pity and (hopefully) a little sympathy. It's where you tell lower level students to "keep going" or "it'll be worth it" even if you have no idea where you'll end up. After all, misery loves company and why should you be the only one who suffer?

In any case, CFA's worth varies significantly with your job functions and career direction. If you can't get a relevant job at a reputable firm with your other qualities, CFA is virtually useless. When you finally made to the top through years of hard work and with some luck, however, it does provide your client slightly more confidence in your professionalism and makes you feel a little better about foregoing that PhD scholarship with their own suffix.
 
Bullion, thanks so much for that post!

Honest to goodness, from all my reading, I'd say UCB is actually my first choice. I hear they're ridiculously competitive, however, so I don't know if I'll have a shot. If any of you have insight into how and when I should contact them / prepare to apply for them being my first choice, let me know!

The CFA actually sounds like something that INTERESTS me and I will definitely pursue it my senior year.

Again thanks so much for the insight, guys!
 
Saidice
Every reputable program is ridiculously competitive, and you really should not be wasting time on disreputable ones. Quant is dominated by PhDs, so MFEs are already in a tough spot and have a hard time defining their places / values in the system. MBA gained popularity because schools have established feeder relations with various industries. Without strong industry connections, professional degrees are almost useless (I suppose if you genuinely enjoy financial mathematics and coding as pastime...)

Luckily, UCB is one of the few schools enjoying / striving for such time-tested tradition of excellence. They are also unique in previewing student profiles and providing feedback. Their director, Linda Kreitzman, plays a very active role in pre-selecing their students. Try attending one of their info sessions (which she hosts) and get some face time. Bring your resume and get her feedback (like... tomorrow). Get her involved in your academic development and "update" her at the end of every quarter how you've improved and are ready to heed to her further advice / instructions. I'm sure profiles will still be evaluated "objectively," but common sense and human nature dictate that people will feel BETTER about you when they can associate your application with the spirit of a young man who is passionate and ready to learn.
 
Some of the best advice I've heard.

I cannot stress how invaluable quant net has become in my learning process and it's because of users like you, Bullion.

Thanks so much.

(BTW. If I live in Texas, what's the best way, in your opinion, to initiate communication with Linda?)
 
Also, honestly, I don't have much of a resume.

I have courses that I've taken so far but aside from learning as a hobby, I'm not enrolled in courses such as finance, intro to econometrics, or probability until next semester, all of which I imagine might be good to see. I'm only currently enrolled in applied stats and real analysis and have taken multivariate cal and linear algebra.

As a rule of thumb, what would you include on a professional resume? I have a rough draft but it honestly doesn't feel right.

I know I have good taste and I'm well spoken and charismatic, but with no financial work experience or research history, I don't how I'm supposed to convey that on a sheet of paper.

(UCB only sounds more and more like a program to truly strive for!)

Again, I thank all of you for the advice, and bullion in particular, your posts are truly inspiring.
 
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