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PhD in Mathematics?

Weicked

Joined
6/7/11
Messages
9
Points
13
I have just obtained my MS in FE this past May.
I have no prior working experience in Finance.
My next plan is to prepare for the CFA Level I exam in December and search for a job to get some real experience. The job market has been tough for me. Most of the jobs require more years of experience or/and higher education (PhD or some certificate designation).
What can I do to get my foot in the door? I am looking to eventually get a job as a quant. So I thought that maybe a PhD in Mathematics would be a good idea. I have also thought the possibilities of a PhD in Finance possibly from Baruch College. Would that be sufficient for a quant job(since it didn't really say a PhD in Quantitative Finance)? I have also thought about taking the FRM since it's more quantitative than the CFA.
Should more education be the next step for me to get closer to a job as a quant?
I know that a PhD would take a minimum of 4 years to complete on average.
I know that most of the PhD programs require their students to be full-time, which means possibly no time for an actual full-time job.
And then I'd come back to the same problem where I'd have no actual working experience in the field.
What would be a good balance? Try to work for a few years and then get my PhD?
and ultimately, how can I get my foot in the door? What do employers in this industry expect from a potential employee with no prior working experience?

Thanks for any help and advices.
 
Weicked said:
The job market has been tough for me.
Click to expand...

Before you spend more money, try to find out why you haven't found a job. Is it really the years of experience or a higher degree? Did you get any offer at all? did you go to interviews? There are a lot of schools that claim almost 100% placement so, are you that unlucky? Are you working with a recruiter?
 
I feel you are absolutely right. However, almost all the jobs that I found online require some extra years of experience which I don't really have. It is really daunting, and I feel like they expect me to know a lot. I still feel like I need time to prepare. (and I feel I would prepare for those kind of interview questions while studying for the CFA exam) If they ask me to derive the Black Scholes formula or Put-Call Parity, I should be able to answer it in 2 seconds. I haven't really been able to find a job posting where they don't require the extra years of experience. I feel like I have been searching for jobs at the wrong places or using wrong keywords. This is also why I am looking for help and possible pointers and advices.
 
Your profile is similar to hundreds of other MFE graduates who found jobs. What most helpful to them is that their programs put them through some established channels instead of letting the students out there fighting for job by themselves. There are no established recruiting channels for MFE at banks and online job application is a number game where the chance of your resume gets picked up is slim to none.
It doesn't matter if you can derive BS with paper and pencil in 2 seconds. It matters that you get that precious first screening interview. And essentially, MFE students pay dearly for it. People can argue all day that they receive the same or better education but at the end of the day, having a job is the ultimate goal.

Going to PhD program will cut into your money-earning career and more often than not, you will have another piece of paper that makes you no more attractive to employers. Just look at the hordes of PhD holders who are joining MFE programs each year.
 
Thank you Andy. Your words are very encouraging. I will contact my school and see what options they have for me.
 
Baruch doesn't give out Ph. D.s, those are all through the CUNY Graduate Center.

One helpful thing that I have heard is to apply for all jobs, no matter how under-experienced you are. "Let them reject you, don't reject yourself"

I have been on at least two interviews where I was under-experienced and didn't exactly fit their job description but in the first case they hired me anyway (after interviewing at least 20 others... most of whom probably had much more relevant experience than me) and in the second case the company created a position just for me (which I then turned down to go get an MFE).
 
I believe I have mentioned this a couple of times before... you go for a Ph.D. ONLY if you are in love with a subject... and/or you like *research* and/or you want a faculty job... the idea of going for a Ph.D. to get a Quant Job is kinda crazy!
 
1. I have heard from classmates that most quant job hires PhDs in quantitative fields because they do not feel competency in a MSFE's quantitative skills. Is that true? Mostly true? Partially? or not at all... ? If it is true, how can a MSFE get by it?
2. And I absolutely agree with you, Devdeep. I have been thinking of getting a PhD in Economics or Finance while I was an undergrad. I have thought about becoming a professor after it all. I have a passion for learning. So even for a long-term personal goal/achievement, I would like to obtain a PhD. Now it is just a matter of fitting with my career at the moment. Many of my professors teach and still have a full-time professional job. I think that is what I would like to do in the future.
 
I have heard from classmates that most quant job hires PhDs in quantitative fields because they do not feel competency in a MSFE's quantitative skills. Is that true? Mostly true? Partially? or not at all... ? If it is true, how can a MSFE get by it?
Click to expand...

Weicked, based only on my experience I have not seen quants without a PHD degree. Most of the guys with MSFE degree I met were holding quantitative analyst positions in various research teams and mostly were kind of programmers who implemented models and math algorithms and worked as assistants to PHD people. One more popular area is in trading support, these people mostly programmers or data researchers who works for particular trading group. Another very popular area for MSFE people is risk management. I myself belong to the second group (trading support).

Good Luck with job hunting !!! My advice do not look for plain quant positions, look for something like quantitative analyst or risk analyst or trading support position, if you do not have enough programming knowledge but good statistics skills looks for data research or market risk positions, at least something to start, as soon as you start to work somewhere you will know where to move next.
 
Wow thank you Ilya. Your comments are very helpful to me. It is exactly what I want to know. Now, I feel like I have a good direction in what kind of jobs I should be looking for and what kind of keywords to use while searching for a job. Thank you again.
 
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