PhD in physics, first job as a quant

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feynmanjr

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I am a PhD student in physics in US and I am going to graduate by end of this summer. Recently, I have decided to shift my career toward a quantitative job instead of going to a postdoc. I have read some basic books in finance and I am good at mathematics and I worked with C++/python and mathematical softwares (Mathematica and Matlab), but it was mostly through self study in school. I want to know what my chance is for applying for getting a job as a quantitative analyst or developer (or similar jobs). Do I have to invest in getting a MFE or some similar degree before thinking of applying in that area? Also, since I am going to graduate in less than a year, is there anything that I can do to help my condition (finding headhunters or studying some special topics)?

-thanks
 
Thanks @rnavarro. I will definitely Start reading these books. Also, do you have any suggestions how to find headhunters or should I upload my CV directly in any online job ad that I see?

@IntoDarkness : Feynman Jr was my nickname in more than a few years and I usually use it for my username.
 
Networking is the key.

You can also start with headhunter site such as selbyjennings, huxley, and efinancialcareers.
Don't forget to network via LinkedIn.

It is very tough to break into Quant Finance but it is worth it.
Good Luck!
 
The main thing I would stress is not to get too cocky regarding your math, C++ or quantitative finance skills. The top hedge funds will test all of these like nothing you ever experienced in grad school. They want to make sure you know everything in C++ inside out, upside down and backward.

Honestly, after a Physics PhD, it might still take you 6-12 months to prepare for the interviews at the TOP places. I would pick up all of the recommended books, plus Elements of Programming Interviews, and work through the problems carefully.
 
The suggestion I gave was more of a quick notice preparation for those graduating few months from now.

I know several people taking their PhD in Physics either took for MS Statistics degree or get some Math Finance courses (C++ programming included) the year before they graduate. In addition, experience with large data sets (such as using Machine Learning, Time Series, Market Microstructure) is desirable.
 
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I agree with both of you (@ShowMeTheLight and @rnavarro ). Unfortunately, I have not prepared myself enough during my phd for such a job. If I had time, I would also consider a couple of internship in different places in previous summers). I know that probably I will not get an offer from any of top hedge funds/Investment banks, but I want to start my first job at this point.

I know C++/math/statistics, but I do not know them enough to pass any kind of tests. I have learnt them (mostly coding and statistics) by myself, so I emphasized on the parts that I needed. My advantage is that I am relatively good in all of them and I am willing to learn whatever I need to know.

@ShowMeTheLight : I would not mind spending some time to learn these, but I am mostly concerned about not having any experience. Do you think I should forget about applying until I completed all different books that are in that area?
 
feynmanjr said:
I
@ShowMeTheLight : I would not mind spending some time to learn these, but I am mostly concerned about not having any experience. Do you think I should forget about applying until I completed all different books that are in that area?
Click to expand...

Yes, definitiely do not apply until you have put in 6-12 months of study in C++ especially, as well as probability, statistics and even basic machine learning and databases (SQL, Hadoop, HBase).

If you apply too early, you won't make it past the 30 minute phone interview. They will just cut you when you say you don't know how to release a unique_ptr or how to write a copy constructor, or overload the () operator.
 
ShowMeTheLight said:
Yes, definitiely do not apply until you have put in 6-12 months of study in C++ especially, as well as probability, statistics and even basic machine learning and databases (SQL, Hadoop, HBase).

If you apply too early, you won't make it past the 30 minute phone interview. They will just cut you when you say you don't know how to release a unique_ptr or how to write a copy constructor, or overload the () operator.
Click to expand...
I have a different opinion. Apply to all jobs and use it as experience or training. Think like you are practicing a sport and getting better at it.

If a quant job ask you about Hadoop and HBase, get ready to hang up or run away.
 
@ShowMeTheLight : I am not going to apply if it says "strong C++ skills", since all my knowledge is based on my personal learning. However, I can write a program and I can easily find my way, if I face a problem that I have not seen before (probably not useful for interview). Also, my main strength is in math (mostly statistical mechanics and PDE/stochastic calculus) and I am hoping to get a job that requires both of these skill at the same time. I will follow your advice and try to become a master in those areas.

@pingu : I agree that even if I fail at interview, it can help me for my next ones. I do not think I can be qualified as a person who works with extremely large databases.
 
pingu said:
I have a different opinion. Apply to all jobs and use it as experience or training. Think like you are practicing a sport and getting better at it.
Click to expand...
It's an optimization problem where you need to balance getting practice with potentially burning opportunities (at a certain time scale, as you can re-apply after a while).
 
feynmanjr said:
@ShowMeTheLight : I am not going to apply if it says "strong C++ skills", since all my knowledge is based on my personal learning. However, I can write a program and I can easily find my way, if I face a problem that I have not seen before (probably not useful for interview).
@pingu : I agree that even if I fail at interview, it can help me for my next ones. I do not think I can be qualified as a person who works with extremely large databases.
Click to expand...

The problem is, it's not the heady growth days of the 1980s or 1990s anymore. The days of Goldman Sachs hiring some physicist from Bell Labs and letting him loose with calculus and a minicomputer are long gone. Now, they are looking for 80% pro software developer and 20% physicist.

Also, there aren't that many top firms in the USA. I don't think you want to blow all of your chances at top firms for interviewing practice. I think you should practice first, then interview at firms in order of least desirable to most desirable.
 
@ShowMeTheLight : I agree. I am not planning to act line I am a genius, so they should hire me. As you said, most of the mathematical modelings happened when Black-Scholes model came out(70s-90s). I can write any program in C++ and I know some other languages like python. The point is I have learned all of these by self study, so I may not know exactly what unique pointer or other expressions means. I have also worked with SQL databases when I was designing software and web pages a while ago, but it was also self study (I can write a code to do the job, but I may not know the official name for anything that I use).

My plan is to do math and computer programming and I doubt if I can compete with someone whose major is computer science. As a person with no experience, I do not think I can get a job at somewhere like Goldman Sachs, so following your advice, I am going to learn more expressions in C++ and then start applying. Since I am going to graduate this summer, I am willing to get any job I can get (or maybe a part time job first). If I do not get a job, I may try to go to a postdoc and find a job after that.
 
feynmanjr said:
@ShowMeTheLight : I can write any program in C++ and I know some other languages like python.
Click to expand...

That is a pretty profound statement. Could you write Google's AlphaGo or Deep Mind's Atari Q-learning convnet? Could you implement dijkstra's shortest path algorithm?

I wouldn't say such things until you have at least worked through Elements of Programming Interviews. There are a lot of tricky questions.

The one problem with physicists is that they are trained to think that knowing the very fundamentals means they know everything. Unfortunately, you can't deduce a lot of software engineering principles from first principles of quantum mechanics.
 
I can write any program in C++ and I know some other languages like python. The point is I have learned all of these by self study, so I may not know exactly what unique pointer or other expressions means.

Don't says that at an interview!!!! NO WAY

Aren't you getting a bit ahead of yourself?

Freshly-minted PhDs think they know everything but a few months in industry will cure that ;)
 
I see. I put a bad wording by saying I can write anything. I definitely cannot. In fact I do not know if I know enough for a specific position or not. I meant I can write a program to find noise in a 1-milion line code, or I can sole a partial differential equation (or some simulations). I am definitely not an advanced programmer.

@ShowMeTheLight : I understand that you are frustrated that physicists who say things like that. I did not want to look like a very arrogant person who think he knows anything. I am pretty sure that most of the things that I learned in school is not going to be useful in finance.

@Daniel Duffy : I did not mean I am pretty advanced in C++. I will definitely be more careful in future in my statements. In fact, that is exactly why I want to go to industry, so I can get a better understanding of how to deal with a real problem.

@TraderJoe : thank you for your suggestions. I will read them before going to an interview.
 

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