S&T vs Portfolio Management

Shweta · 11/29/12

Hi,

I'm still a newbie to QuantNet, so please dont castigate me if this question has been asked before.. I did run some searches, but did not find an answer to my questions...

1. Is "Sales & Trading" part of the buy side or sell side ? (In my opinion, sales == sell side, but trading = sell side + buy side)

2. For someone starting as a trader in the S&T division (of a sell side or buy side firm), is it possible to move into a portfolio manager position over time ?

3. What skills are required for trading, and what skills for portfolio management ?

4. Since we generally say "sales & trading" together, instead of "sales" and "trading", does it mean that a single person performs both tasks (sales + trading) ? In other words, can I say that "I want to work as a Trader", or would I need to say "I want to work in Sales & Trading" ?

I am fairly certain these questions have been answered before, so if anyone could answer them here or provide relevant links, i would be VERY grateful. Thanks for your time !

Shweta · 11/29/12

anyone ?

dmv · 11/29/12

1. S&T is a standard acronym for sell-side guys, i.e. guys from investment bank (financial services firm). Sales and trader work in one team (and share one bonus pool). Salesperson brings business, trader gives prices, makes deal and manages risk.

2. Yes, but what for? Portfolio management is something different to trading.

3. definitely answer should be on this site. too long to type.

4. No. Salesman performs regular sales work, trader performs another work. Maybe it is possible to combine these positions, but i have never seen such a combination

Shweta · 11/30/12

Thanks dmv !

Shweta · 11/30/12

2. For someone starting as a trader in the S&T division (of a sell side or buy side firm), is it possible to move into a portfolio manager position over time ?

--> I'm trying to know what I could do long term if join as a trader and later find out that it is not my cup of tea.

Shweta · 12/25/12

^^ anyone ??

Ken Abbott · 12/25/12

Shweta said:
^^ anyone ??

It happens frequently.

Shweta · 12/25/12

Ken Abbott Thanks for the confirmation. Could you suggest some of the common exit opportunities for those who join as sell-side traders ? If you can give just the positions they Sell-Side traders move into after a few yrs, I can do the relevant research at my end, and will post anything relevant here on QuantNet.

Merry Xmas

THanks !!

Ken Abbott · 12/25/12

Shweta said:
Ken Abbott Thanks for the confirmation. Could you suggest some of the common exit opportunities for those who join as sell-side traders ? If you can give just the positions they Sell-Side traders move into after a few yrs, I can do the relevant research at my end, and will post anything relevant here on QuantNet.

Merry Xmas

THanks !!

Operations, Risk Management, Portfolio Management, various industry utilities, to name a few.

Shweta · 12/25/12

Thanks !!

Jayanthan · 12/25/12

In America, there are no set out rules. You could have medical degree( may be college dropped out), and still become HF manager.

Shweta · 12/26/12

Ken Abbott said:
Operations, Risk Management, Portfolio Management, various industry utilities, to name a few.

Portfolio Management - Is it more common for sell-side traders to move into asset management firms, or hedge funds ? Thanks !

Ken Abbott · 12/26/12

Shweta said:
Portfolio Management - Is it more common for sell-side traders to move into asset management firms, or hedge funds ? Thanks !

That's hard to say. The is a fundamental shift taking place in the industry. Big banks are doing less and less due to regulatory restrictions. Many people have moved to the buy side. The dust hasn't settled.

Shweta · 12/26/12

1. I agree when you say that banks are doing less due to increased regulations. But has there been a significant reduction in hiring for entry-level trader positions in banks too ?

The way I understand things, buy-side hires experienced people, so the main option for recent graduates is sell-side positions.

2. So if I want to be a portfolio manager (PM) in the long term (at an asset mgmt firm OR a hedge fund), is it realistic to join as a sell-side trader (at an investment bank) upon graduation, and then move to a PM position on the buy side after few yrs of experience ??

eager_to_learn · 1/18/13

bounce !

Ken Abbott or anyone else ?

Shweta · 1/23/13

Re-posting my Qs

1. Given that banks are doing less prop trading due to increased regulations, I wanted to know if there has been a significant reduction in hiring for entry-level trader positions in banks ?

2. If I want to be a portfolio manager (PM) in the long term (at an asset mgmt firm OR a hedge fund), is it realistic to join as a sell-side trader (at an investment bank) upon graduation, and then move to a PM position on the buy side after few yrs of experience ??

Thanks in advance!!
Shweta

Ken Abbott · 1/23/13

Shweta said:
2. If I want to be a portfolio manager (PM) in the long term (at an asset mgmt firm OR a hedge fund), is it realistic to join as a sell-side trader (at an investment bank) upon graduation, and then move to a PM position on the buy side after few yrs of experience ??

This is tantamount to saying "If I want to play drums for the Rolling Stones, does it make sense to be their manager for a few years and then move to drums or should I perhaps tour with Prince on keyboards for a few years?"

Entry-level trading jobs are few and are getting scarcer. If you're really interested in finance, worry about getting your foot in the door. Sales assistant. Generalist trainee.

Bank trading units are shrinking overall. While there's certainly some cyclicality to this, the overall shrinking trend is secular.

C S · 1/26/13

Jayanthan said:
In America, there are no set out rules. You could have medical degree( may be college dropped out), and still become HF manager.

Although a guy like Burry wouldn't be on a forum asking people what to do. He'd have combed the Internet (and elsewhere) relentless day and night and already have this info.