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Sales

Joined
1/3/20
Messages
3
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11
Hi!
First, let me give you a bit of background: I am a math student, and I am interested in finance. In spite of having a heavy STEM background, I'm pretty decent with people and I'm a strong communicator. I am working hard to get better programming and am reading a lot about finance and economics. I think a job as a salesman would suit me.

1. What is Best Sales Job In Finance?
2. Is a job in sales a bit of a mix between communication skills, math and finance?
3. Is the job intellectually stimulating?
4. Is it stressful?
5. Is a career in Sales better than a quant career?
6. What would the alternatives be? Enterprise Sales?
7. Why did you choose Sales over Quant?
 
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In spite of having a heavy STEM background, I'm pretty decent with people and I'm a strong communicator

That's a cliché.
The two are uncorrelated IMO. Richard Feynman and John von Neumann.
 
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In spite of having a heavy STEM background, I'm pretty decent with people and I'm a strong communicator

That's a cliché.
The two are uncorrelated IMO. Richard Feynman and John von Neumann.

So, do you think S&T Sales is not a good long-term-career? What would the alternatives be? Enterprise Sales, Quant...?
 
So, do you think S&T Sales is not a good long-term-career? What would the alternatives be? Enterprise Sales, Quant...?
I have no idea what is good for you. My remark was how you correlated STEM and being outgoing.
Why not stick with STEM? Is it the money?
 
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Sales roles are pretty critical in the sell side. What is crucial is to be able to speak intelligently with clients. Obviously, as you are strong quantitatively you can target equity derivatives or algorithmic execution roles.
Most of the sales people I found in sell side were just folks who think boozing up a client or golfing with them is all that there is to it. But you can definitely do all of that and impress them with your color on markets or structure a solution for a complex hedging problem.
Also as a salesperson you are valued by the relationships with clients. The more they like you the more safer your job is. In the end, you get new jobs based on how much commission you would bring in. All of this takes time but sell side is peoples business to a large extent. You have to be comfortable working with people.
 
Sales roles are pretty critical in the sell side. What is crucial is to be able to speak intelligently with clients. Obviously, as you are strong quantitatively you can target equity derivatives or algorithmic execution roles.
Most of the sales people I found in sell side were just folks who think boozing up a client or golfing with them is all that there is to it. But you can definitely do all of that and impress them with your color on markets or structure a solution for a complex hedging problem.
Also as a salesperson you are valued by the relationships with clients. The more they like you the more safer your job is. In the end, you get new jobs based on how much commission you would bring in. All of this takes time but sell side is peoples business to a large extent. You have to be comfortable working with people.



After doing some research, I am becoming concerened that sales is not the place to be with the current state of the industry and It's the most vulnerable position to be cut in the industry. Do you think S&T Salesman is still a good long-term-career?

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't reconsidering my future after reading all of this. I guess I just have to work hard and search for opportunities wherever I can find them.

I am talkative, high energy, and thrive around people. I am strongly goal and problem solving oriented and have the ability to work extremely efficient on tight deadlines. I tend to focus on the big picture and I am able to think strategically and maintain their long-term focus. I value truthfulness, consistency and equality and think logically when making decisions. I am a passionate of Math and investing/ Finance and I would like to talk to smart people. What would the alternatives be? If HF's were dying, as well as S&T- if that's so, what careers are best to start to pursue?
 
After doing some research, I am becoming concerened that sales is not the place to be with the current state of the industry and It's the most vulnerable position to be cut in the industry. Do you think S&T Salesman is still a good long-term-career?

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't reconsidering my future after reading all of this. I guess I just have to work hard and search for opportunities wherever I can find them.

I am talkative, high energy, and thrive around people. I am strongly goal and problem solving oriented and have the ability to work extremely efficient on tight deadlines. I tend to focus on the big picture and I am able to think strategically and maintain their long-term focus. I value truthfulness, consistency and equality and think logically when making decisions. I am a passionate of Math and investing/ Finance and I would like to talk to smart people. What would the alternatives be? If HF's were dying, as well as S&T- if that's so, what careers are best to start to pursue?

layoffs are a part of life unfortunately. No one is safe - even compliance and risk people get cut in rounds. In the end you improve your odds by contributing positively to the business - by bringing in client commission, making money by trading or saving money by automation etc. even if hedge funds don’t make money, there are other institutional clients like pension funds or asset management firms. Banks in the end are selling financial products and they need good salespeople.

Every sell side firm is different and mostly salespeople end up getting the top jobs. The industry is going through big flux right now - many banks are quitting equities trading and automation is eating into margins. The only banks doing great are American banks and everyone lines up to work for them.

Interpersonal skills are very essential in team based work and even if you end up as a quant you’d end up working with a lot of teams - risk, trading, compliance etc.
 
sales is sales. Relationship of course is important, but you need to be ambitious to sell to your own grandmother. I think career wise; it has as much as potential as a quant, but it depends on you. Do you actually like sales? I love talking to people but I hate sales. If I get 20 no's in a row, I'll be demoralized.
 
After doing some research, I am becoming concerened that sales is not the place to be with the current state of the industry and It's the most vulnerable position to be cut in the industry. Do you think S&T Salesman is still a good long-term-career?

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't reconsidering my future after reading all of this. I guess I just have to work hard and search for opportunities wherever I can find them.
If you're good at sales, firing is a non-issue as good sales people get rehired faster than any other role. Usually we're talking within weeks i.e. pretty instantly and with immediate start within days. Different timescale to other roles. Employers don't care about why you were fired as long as you have that salesperson personality in evidence.

Plus good sales people I know usually develop good contact networks very fast anyway, and early on, so they have someone to vouch for them.

That's in general. In client facing roles in finance you want someone with the sales skills but that can sound like they know their shit and, to an extent, that do. There's 2 nightmares - one is the person with no soft skills, which isn't a problem here. But the other is being the spiv that leaves out details or leaves clients high and dry from not understanding basics, not answering important Qs etc etc.

I am talkative, high energy, and thrive around people. I am strongly goal and problem solving oriented and have the ability to work extremely efficient on tight deadlines. I tend to focus on the big picture and I am able to think strategically and maintain their long-term focus. I value truthfulness, consistency and equality and think logically when making decisions. I am a passionate of Math and investing/ Finance and I would like to talk to smart people. What would the alternatives be? If HF's were dying, as well as S&T- if that's so, what careers are best to start to pursue?
Don't confuse being good with people socially/down the pub with being good at sales. For one thing, the core skill is having that same energy even at the end of a bad day of 20 rejections.

In a previous life I did salesy jobs and market research (calling up businesses to do surveys). Mathematics and physics graduates weren't any better or worse than others, you're not that unique. The Big Bang Theory image is way off and people tend to paint their picture of mathematicians and physicists on the basis of a handful of geeks that live up to that image.

The problem I find with math/physics students isn't anything to do with personality as such, more difficulties when being asked to sell complex products. Or products with any complexity at all. That covers most of finance. When you know your stuff, it can be much harder not to fall into the trap of going around in circles talking about irrelevant minutae, particularly as questions on financial products will be very specific and detailed anyway.

If this is too much, other options are business origination or trading roles. They require personality and client facing, but are much more of a mix of people and technical skills. But first self examine how strong your personal skills really are - I'm not going to psychoanalyse based over the internet. Sleazy charlatans do that.
 
If you're good at sales, firing is a non-issue as good sales people get rehired faster than any other role. Usually we're talking within weeks i.e. pretty instantly and with immediate start within days. Different timescale to other roles. Employers don't care about why you were fired as long as you have that salesperson personality in evidence.

Plus good sales people I know usually develop good contact networks very fast anyway, and early on, so they have someone to vouch for them.

This applies to everyone - traders, risk professionals, software developers etc. An unmistakable trend in the sell side is that the headcounts are reducing every year (even in good years).


It is a structural change, not cyclical. You don't need a lot of sales people as clients don't even bother to call the desk or hit you up on Bloomberg chats. Most of the orders, even for equity long/short or activist investors are piped electronically. The whole model of sales/traders passing orders to trading desk won't last long. You can always move to the buy side or wealth management as I often saw FO sales people do. A lot of folks laid off from Deutsche Bank have landed in Citadel and Blackrock in the same sales role. But the sad fact of life is, there isn't room for large sales team in all but the largest of bulge brackets.
 
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