Singapore engineering grad's career switch to quant

[Peace]

Dear all,

I am a Chemical Engineering grad with a few years of research and entrepreneurial experience from Singapore and is 30. I am considering a career switch to finance. I suppose the best route I can take would be through a Masters of Financial Engineering degree.

I am considering the MFE from NTU and then getting a quantitative analyst, risk management or trading job or maybe a commodity trading job in an energy company in Singapore.

I am willing to start with an entry level salary (taking a pay cut if necessary). But I would like to know after working in quantitative or risk management area for 10 years in Singapore, what kind of salary would I be able to expect in the worst-case scenario, assuming that I am not a high-flier and is just an average performer and is not employed in the best-paid departments of the financial institution? Will I be able to to at least earn 8K-10K Singapore dollars per month?

The reason why I am asking this is I have to make a career choice out of my few passions and financial considerations is one of the important factors that I have to weigh.

Hope to get some views and advice soon! Thank you!

 

[Andy Nguyen]

We have a few members from Singapore here but I don't know if anyone would be able to give you a number on it. The outlook for risk management career in Singapore is very positive. You may know that the Singapore government has plenty of money and it has to invest somewhere. Well, it just bailed out UBS. And you can see the trend where gorv-controlled funds are invested oversea in US companies. Somebody has to manage the investment and risk so jobs outlook is good.
10 years into your new career, at your max estimate, you will be making 120K Sing USD a year. That is around 80K USD which I think is quite doable. Just for comparison, most MFE graduates in the US makes more than that on average in their first year.
I'm sure you will live quite comfortably in Singapore with that salary.

 

[Peace]

Thank you Andy for your reply! Are you working as a quant now?

Yah, the Singapore government has just announced their investment in UBS. Someone has written to the local newspaper questioning whether they have got a good deal.

I understand that the career and salary prospects of MFE graduates in the US is quite good, especially those from reputable MFE programs. I can have a rough guide on the salary range from recruitment advertisements for positions in US. But somehow I could not get the same kind of reference information with regards to positions in Singapore. The quantitative and risk management sector people in Singapore seems to have quite a low public profile. That is why I was hoping to get some kind of information from this forum. I understand that the salary range for Singapore quantitative jobs will be lower than that in US, but I do not know how low it will be.

Another question is the level of competence in computing for MFE students. I have 2 courses in Fortran, but do not have C++ courses during my undergraduate years. Do you think I would be able to cope with C++, as required in the MFE program? Is a high level of C++ expertise an important factor for being successful in quantitative and risk management fields? Or does the sector have differing job roles for MFE graduates such that one with normal but not exceptional computing ability can still do well?

Thanks and hope to hear from you soon! Would also appreciate any opinions or perspectives from anyone!

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I'm working. Yes. Not sure if I can categorize myself as pure quant. It doesn't matter to me much.
Anyhoo, you can actually get some ballpark figure for the kind of salary for risk management in Singapore

Get the list here http://jobs.efinancialcareers.com/Risk_Management/Singapore.htm
Here is good example

Market Risk Analyst - Equities

Company:

Hays Banking Location: Singapore Compensation: SGD 40,000 - 60,000 Years Experience: 3-5 yrs Position Type: Employee Employment type: Full time
We are currently seeking applicants with the following characteristics and qualifications:

• Product knowledge of derivatives and pricing methodologies
• 3-4 years experience in derivative products in market risk role
• Bachelor's or Master's degree in Finance (Engineering, Finance, Banking)
• Understanding of risk greeks and VaR methodologies
• Excel VBA programming
• Positive Attitude
• Motivated and Driven

C++ is taught in most serious FE programs. A good working knowledge of it will save you plenty of headache and time. It is asked in 90% of quant interviews. (well i guesstimate it but you got the idea)
If you know Fortran (or any programming language), just pick up a book and code. Take a break and code again. That's the only way to learn any language. No amount of book reading can make you good.
I'm currently learning VB.NET and C# and I hit my head again the table many times trying to get something simple programs working. There is no way around it. Practice makes perfect.
There are places for everyone with different level of expertise but if you aim for mediocre, you will go nowhere. It's specially true in the hyper competitive world of Wall Street.
Working environment in Singapore may be different. I just don't know.

 

[Vic_Siqiao]

NTU has a good MFE program, i think graduates there are very competitive salary should be good

 

[Peace]

Thanks Andy and Vic for your replies!

Vic, so you have heard about the NTU MFE program? Do you know any graduates from there?

 

[Sunny]

I got to know quite a few of MFE graduates from NTU and NUS when I was working in Singapore. Almost all of them were able to find good jobs in top tier investment banks upon graduation doing either quant related work or trading. I think the job prospects for MFE graduates in Singapore are quite good, and I don't see it a problem to earn 8-10K SGD especially in 10 years' time. But at the end of the day, hopefully it's the bonus that counts, right?

 

[Peace]

Hello Sunny, thanks for your reply! It is encouraging to hear that the outlook for MFE graduates in Singapore is optimistic.

Yah I agree with you on the bonus part. But that will depend whether we can pull in the profits right? If only we can take a peek into the workings of the Medallion funds of Simons haha

Where did you work in Singapore last time? Were you working in a quant or trading role? You are in US now?

 

[Sunny]

I used to work in Citi when I was in Singapore, but unfortunately not in quant or trading. That's why I'm at Baruch now trying to get my MFE degree.

 

[Vic_Siqiao]

Thanks Andy and Vic for your replies!

Vic, so you have heard about the NTU MFE program? Do you know any graduates from there?

there r only two fulltime MFE programs in Asia, that is in HKUST and NTU. HKUST's MFE is newly built but has no strong network in HK and their courses seem not as practical as NTU's, so i think NTU is better. Actually HKUST MFE's director is also an ambitious guy just as our Prof. Dan, but he still couldnt get very good students from mainland China or other Asian countries( because US is surely more attractive )

 

[chervelle]

NTU MFE only accepts 40 students per year and there are a few hundreds applying each year. Most of them are Asians.

Peace, u are bold to make a switch at 30. Most Singaporeans won't dare to make a switch in their 30s

Working in Singapore is rather stressful and competitive... too many rising Asian talents.

 

[kean]

Peace, please go ahead if you can get into NTU. NUS is more on asset management wherelse NTU focuses on derivatives. I have a friend did it with NTU about 4 years back, he is working in London now. He mentioned that the program is very quanty and great. NUS may give you stronger alumni network and connection in Singapore. Both programs are good.

HKUST is probably more maths than any programs in the Asia Pacific region. It is not true that Prof Kwok couldn't get any good students. The main reason is whether admitted students can actually survive through the one year program without strong mathematics and probability background going into the course. You can check their curriculum online. One of my friend who has an engineering degree from Oxbridge actually dropped out because of the maths. You can imagine the depth they try to teach to the students. Nevertheless, you can go to Prof. Kwok website to find out the subjects details.

Prof. Kwok has great connection with the HK markets. I think getting a job in HK is not a problem if you can graduate from HKUST maths department. All the best.

 

[Peace]

Thank you all for your replies!

Sunny, so you are doing the MFE at Baruch now? Congratulations on getting into a quality MFE program! How do you find the course so far? What was your first degree?

Kean, is your friend who took up MFE in NTU a Singaporean? Did he have any finance experience prior to MFE? What was his first degree? I can look upon him as my inspiration. Is he working as a quant now in London?

Chervelle, are you from Singapore? Singapore way of life is quite fast-paced, but I think it will still not be as stressful as in US. Yah in Singapore, people tend to have some kind of invisible timelines with regards to career and marriage. Many are unhappy and disgruntled in their area of work but assume that there is no other alternative when actually it only takes a decision from within to change things. Most stay in their comfort zone.

Hope to hear from you guys soon!

 

[kean]

Thank you all for your replies!

Kean, is your friend who took up MFE in NTU a Singaporean? Did he have any finance experience prior to MFE? What was his first degree? I can look upon him as my inspiration. Is he working as a quant now in London?

Hope to hear from you guys soon!

My friend is a Sigaporean. He was an electrical engineer with Siemens AG in SG. I think ee engineering program teaches DSP and signal system. DSP filtering process and approximation techniques are very applied. These techniques are very useful for FE or Financial Maths. In fact, Ito formula comes from this part which we use to price options. Secondly, signal system also covers transformation and part of measure theory which are useful for martingale derivation of option pricing.

I think if you have a solid calculus background and some basic statistics knowledge like statistical modeling and regression analysis, you should be alright. However, you should be prepared to battle becaue there is a huge gap between undergraduate probability and FE probability. Since you are not required to build system like a system developer, undertanding of programming algorithm is just good enough to write some codes for simple models. My 2 cents. Other people may have different views.

For one thing, a normal FE program can't beat a Phd so you learn what is useful to get a job first.

Good luck and Merry Christmas. I am going to SG next week.

Cheers,

 

[chervelle]

Chervelle, are you from Singapore? Singapore way of life is quite fast-paced, but I think it will still not be as stressful as in US. Yah in Singapore, people tend to have some kind of invisible timelines with regards to career and marriage. Many are unhappy and disgruntled in their area of work but assume that there is no other alternative when actually it only takes a decision from within to change things. Most stay in their comfort zone.

Yes, I'm from Singapore. You may check out my previous posts in the forum. I'm new in this forum as well

 

[ptcm]

Hello, everyone. I am also interested in taking the FE master degree at NUS. I now work as a trader for a US asset management company.

Now the biggest obstable is GRE. Does anyone know the cutoff requirement for both quant and verval section ? THX

 

[Peace]

Hi,

If you are already a trader, why do you still want to take up the MFE course?

I do not think there is a clear-cut cut-off for GRE or GMAT. They look at the application as a whole. A high score is helpful but do not guarantee entry. Similarly, a lower score does not mean one will definitely not be accepted.

 

[alain]

Hi,

If you are already a trader, why do you still want to take up the MFE course?

Why not? If you think you are going to become a trader just by going through the MFE program you are sadly mistaken.

 

[QuantNeeds]

Why not? If you think you are going to become a trader just by going through the MFE program you are sadly mistaken.

No experience here - but lots of observation. I agree. But there are so many other opportunities with an MFE degree. I think coming in to the program and looking to work hard :smt024 will get very far.

 

[ptcm]

Hi,

If you are already a trader, why do you still want to take up the MFE course?

I do not think there is a clear-cut cut-off for GRE or GMAT. They look at the application as a whole. A high score is helpful but do not guarantee entry. Similarly, a lower score does not mean one will definitely not be accepted.

We do a lot of back-testings before trading. MFE is the only master program that is relevant to it. I have no interest in taking MBA. This is the only one choice.