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So, no one saw this coming eh?

Wow, this guy called it, and was literally laughed at. For what it's worth, there now appears to be a youtube cult forming around him, judging by the number of videos honoring his forecasting.

I like their financial picks: Merrill (at 76) and Bear in August 2007. Washington Mutual in December 2007. I have a feeling a few of those clips were cherry picked to make the point, though...
 
Woody, let me know what that guy recommends. I might decide to take the opposite position after all :)
 
For what it's worth, there now appears to be a youtube cult forming around him, judging by the number of videos honoring his forecasting.
I have a feeling a few of those clips were cherry picked to make the point, though...

It also could be a nice (though arguably efficient) marketing algorithm of how to sell a book: :)
1. Adopt an opinion (or develop a hypothesis B) contradicting to generally accepted A
2. Stick to this hypothesis B, be strong about it, do some research to bolster your point
3. Get publicity on media, argue harshly about hypothesis B
4. Write a book about B
5. Wait for B to happen, and then repeat 3 (with an emphasis on how A was surely false)
 
Vladimir: I think you'll have a better shot at success buying lots of out of the money options. Or lottery tickets. However, the original strategy might bear some tweaking:

0. Be a very insightful, contrarian thinker.
1. Observe something that you genuinely feel very strongly about that contradicts mainstream opinion.
 
I absolutely love how all these wise asses are laughing at Peter Schiff when it was at 13,000-13,500 and today the market closed at 7,500. Haha just shows you education doesn't make you good at what you do.
 
Interesting. Most of the people I talked to day in and day out expected this very thing.

During the summer of 2006, one of traders on the floor of the NYBOT and I had this chat:

SAIL: "Chaz, clock a ticket!"
[CHAZ obliges by timestamping a buy/sell ticket]
[SAIL grabs ticket, and scrawls on it in pen, "Housing topped."]

I remember we spent the morning looking around for housing indexes to short...

I probably still have that ticket somewhere...

This was by no means the extent of it -- just an anecdote.
 
Its just terrifying to see these comments from supposedly math wizs.

Given that there were hundreds of people voicing their opinion about the economy on TV, its not unlikely that atleast one of them will end up being right. It does not make Peter Schiff a prophet. It just makes him very lucky.

Having said that, it does take plenty of courage to go against the grain. The guy deserves credit for that. But again, many people go against the grain who are just as insightful as Peter Schiff, but they wont be writing a book about having the last laugh. Because most of them actually end up being wrong. Their videos do not get uploaded to youtube. No cults form around them. There is no thread on quantnet about paying attention to their next prediction.

This is pure survivorship bias. But I did not expect to see it on this forum. I was wrong about that.
 
I absolutely love how all these wise asses are laughing at Peter Schiff when it was at 13,000-13,500 and today the market closed at 7,500. Haha just shows you education doesn't make you good at what you do.

Their primary function was to be propagandists and talk up the market. Granted, some of them were so stupid they actually believed the rubbish they were spouting. As for "education," I don't think any of those paid monkeys had any in any real sense (I'm not talking of paper certificates).
 
Its just terrifying to see these comments from supposedly math wizs.

... It does not make Peter Schiff a prophet. It just makes him very lucky.

... This is pure survivorship bias. But I did not expect to see it on this forum. I was wrong about that.

Why he commands respect is because he is giving clear reasons for his stance. And with 20/20 hindsight, we can see his reasoning was correct. If you toss a coin ten times and have thousands of seers, one is going to forecast the right sequence of (say) HHHTTHTHTT. But if someone forecasts this sequence and gives us an argument of why this sequence will occur and these arguments turn out to be plausible in retrospect, we pay more attention to him. In philosophy we call this the "principle of sufficient reason": it's not enough to say something is true, or forecast something correctly; one has to give intelligible and plausible reasons for why something is true or why a forecast will occur. Schiff is doing that. And the monkeys opposing him deserve our contempt not merely because they were wrong but mainly because they're just jabbering away, giving no clear arguments for their stance. The only "argument" they have is that in the recent past, house prices have been going up at a certain rate or the stock prices of financial firms have been at a certain level -- and this must continue.
 
Why he commands respect is because he is giving clear reasons for his stance. And with 20/20 hindsight, we can see his reasoning was correct. If you toss a coin ten times and have thousands of seers, one is going to forecast the right sequence of (say) HHHTTHTHTT. But if someone forecasts this sequence and gives us an argument of why this sequence will occur and these arguments turn out to be plausible in retrospect, we pay more attention to him. In philosophy we call this the "principle of sufficient reason": it's not enough to say something is true, or forecast something correctly; one has to give intelligible and plausible reasons for why something is true or why a forecast will occur. Schiff is doing that. And the monkeys opposing him deserve our contempt not merely because they were wrong but mainly because they're just jabbering away, giving no clear arguments for their stance. The only "argument" they have is that in the recent past, house prices have been going up at a certain rate or the stock prices of financial firms have been at a certain level -- and this must continue.

For this reason, I find most of TV shows to be artificial. A set of people are repeating some stuff that they've learned by heart. They delve in precise/matematical areas with subjective measures, no evidence and no logic. Skipping the logic of opinions, all is built to make a big show: laugh, shout, throw punchlines and try to forge some sentences in mind of the viewer.
Coming back to this Mr. Shiff, he is received with same attitude as Dr. Ron Paul. Everyone was laughing and slowly people will realize that they are mostly right. Nobody wants to admit that Treasury funds are not unlimited, that it is not a begging game to save GM, but a survival game.
 
Why he commands respect is because he is giving clear reasons for his stance. And with 20/20 hindsight, we can see his reasoning was correct. If you toss a coin ten times and have thousands of seers, one is going to forecast the right sequence of (say) HHHTTHTHTT. But if someone forecasts this sequence and gives us an argument of why this sequence will occur and these arguments turn out to be plausible in retrospect, we pay more attention to him.

I would reckon that you can give reasonable explanations for each of the possible outcomes of ten coin flips, not just one.

In fact, reasonable people argued that in the worst case, the growth rate of real estate values would simply slow down, resulting in a soft landing (rather than a crash) for the entire economy. Those people are obviously missing in this particular video. Instead, only monkeys are providing the opposite view, and that makes Schiff look even better.

My Point is simply this. If you are watching a tennis match between Federer and some unknown newcomer, you can predict that Federer will win, and you will be correct 99% of the time. The reason being that there are very very few unknowns involved.

When it comes to predicting things about direction of the economy, or outcome of a war or other macro level events, number of unknowns are just astronomical. If it wasnt, we will all be printing money. Unfortunately though, our minds make us pay attention to anything that makes this world look less chaotic than it actually is.
 
I would reckon that you can give reasonable explanations for each of the possible outcomes of ten coin flips, not just one.

True, but the model has to be both plausible and aesthetically appealing. The reason the Copernican model was preferred to the Ptolemaic was both plausibility and simplicity -- it wasn't any better at prediction than the complex Ptolemaic model, but it explained matters in terms of a few factors, whereas the Ptolemaic was a "phenomenological theory." For the same reason we prefer statistical mechanics to thermodynamics. The point is that quality of explanations, models, and theories varies. We don't just want accuracy in prediction -- which may be fortuitous -- but a compelling model or theory that shows why the prediction is plausible based on a few causal factors. Thus the argument that house prices have gone up by 10% for each of the past three years means they will go up this year is an insult to the intelligence of any quant.

In fact, reasonable people argued that in the worst case, the growth rate of real estate values would simply slow down, resulting in a soft landing (rather than a crash) for the entire economy. Those people are obviously missing in this particular video. Instead, only monkeys are providing the opposite view, and that makes Schiff look even better.

Who's "reasonable?" People with well-modulated voices who speak with gravitas? When have we seen this mythical "soft landing?" This is an euphemism used by politicians to assuage the gullible public that things won't be too bad. We want "unreasonable" people who are making counter-intuitive predictions, and who are arguing quantitatively, and arguing from the foundation of a handful of causal factors (ideally). And what they say has to be "falsifiable": it has to be quantitative and hence subsequently testable for accuracy. Thus some nincompoop who argues vaguely about "soft landing" can always subsequently claim that's what happened; his prediction wasn't quantitative and hence not falsifiable. A true theorist has to commit himself, stick his neck out, making quantitative predictions that could well be wrong.

When it comes to predicting things about direction of the economy, or outcome of a war or other macro level events, number of unknowns are just astronomical. If it wasnt, we will all be printing money. Unfortunately though, our minds make us pay attention to anything that makes this world look less chaotic than it actually is.

Au contraire, this is more political nonsense from those crook politicians and their paid academic stooges. We still look for theories which will explain the trajectory in qualitative terms. Thus Schiff cannot predict something will happen in October rather than November -- but he should be able to say that it will happen sooner rather than later and because of reasons A,B, and C, and explain the logical threads. Politicians and other crooks use the complexity argument to get themselves off the hook when their lies and stupid utterances get exposed for what they are.

The whole idea of science is to explain the complexity of phenomenon in terms of models based on a few assumptions and axioms. We know such models cannot capture all the rich texture of phenomenon -- but they should get something right. Hence mechanics, electrodynamics, statistical mechanics, and quantum theory. We ask the same of economic models but relax our requirements: things should be explained and predicted qualitatively (just as we have a field called "qualitative dynamics").

By the way, I never heard of Schiff before yesterday. But I see him taking a courageous stand -- something every true theorist has to be prepared to do.
 
I think His Holiness is out of his depth and such vague utterances are worth about as much as Nostradamus's prophesies. I'll stick with Peter Schiff. And in any case, I'm not a Catholic (did go to Mass a month ago, though).

Congratulations! I hope you didn't take communion.

Just remember the words, "Humanae Vitae"

(Humanae Vitae - Encyclical Letter of His Holiness Paul VI on the regulation of birth, 25 July 1968).

Someday when you're a bit older you'll be amazed.
 
I posted earlier about how lots of people saw this coming. Then I thought better of it.

To wit, I recently wrote a friend:

About the blog...[this one: The Man Who Saw This Coming at Glick Report] well, we all knew the bubble was going to burst. But exactly how it would lock up credit worldwide isn't something I can say I had the capability of foreseeing. It was prescient indeed; but I think any reasonable person with as thorough an understanding of the mechanisms of modern finance would have come to the same conclusion. What's amazing is that it went on and on in spite of the better judgment of so many of the participants. There's a book called "Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds," which I never did finish but found the title itself was quite instructive. Sometimes people really are like sheep.
 
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