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Social Security & Medicare

With the recent government announcement that the Social Security trust fund is set to run out in 2037, four years earlier than previous estimates, many young workers are asking themselves: Why am I paying into a system that might not be there for me when I retire?

"It seems unfair," says Kouri Marshall, chairman of the board of governors for the Youth Entitlement Summit, which advocates more youth participation in public policy. "We have a Social Security system that was built upon us having a certain number of people employed in this country."

Indeed, the entire premise of the Social Security system is that Americans will continue to innovate and the economy will grow so that the current generation of workers will be able to fund current retirees' benefits. But because of shifting demographics and the added stress of the recession, when the baby boomers begin to retire in 2016, the benefits being paid out will start to exceed the amount being taken in. After the trust fund is depleted in 2037, beneficiaries will be able to receive only what current workers are paying in, which will be about three quarters of the scheduled benefits, unless changes are made.

"It's very much a Ponzi scheme where the next generation will get stuck holding the bag,"
says Laurence Kotlikoff, author of The Coming Generational Storm and a longtime advocate of reform. "We have a huge generational imbalance."

The justice of the situation is up for debate. David Walker, former U.S. comptroller general, says that Social Security was never designed to be a quid-pro-quo system. It was designed to provide extra income to lower-income groups at the expense of those with higher incomes, so analyzing the rate of return for current workers doesn't make much sense, he says. "I hear young people saying, 'I'm not getting a good deal.' That's technically right, but it doesn't reflect the nature of what Social Security is," he explains.

Besides, while workers in their 20s and 30s may not get a full return on their payments, they do benefit from older workers' and retirees' innovations, says Bernard Wasow, senior fellow and economist at the Century Foundation. "The premise that there shouldn't be any transfer between generations doesn't make much sense. All the inventions, improvements, and technology that my generation generates will be passed on to my kids," he says. Plus, he adds, retirees often face poverty and need the financial support. "We can't just tell old people they should have saved more and should sleep under bridges," he says.

With people in their 50s and 60s getting ready to retire just as the stock market has taken a big hit, plenty of workers in their 20s and 30s are just as concerned about their parents' financial well-being as their own. "I don't think, 'Grandpa's getting this much and I'm getting this much, and that's not fair,' " says Anya Kamenetz, author of Generation Debt: Why Now Is a Terrible Time to Be Young. "My worry is, how do you get benefits to people who need it? That's the bigger issue. I have parents who are turning 60 soon, and they'll be relying on 401(k)s that aren't as strong, so I want to know the [Social Security] benefits are there."

The baby boom generation "has seen much of its retirement savings wiped out at a point when it's too late for many to recover. So the new context is, the elderly are going to be the fastest-growing poverty group in the United States...so we're going to have to spend a lot of money on the elderly," says Phillip Longman, author of Born to Pay: The New Politics of Aging in America and a senior fellow at the New America Foundation.

For Thierry Dongala, vice president at Americans for Generational Equity, a youth advocacy group, the main concern is getting younger people a voice in the debate over public policies such as Social Security and Medicare. "Young Americans are becoming a minority as a group. So it's not a civil rights issue in the traditional form, but it is because we are now a minority who is being asked to foot the bill for the majority," he says. "It's not like we want to create generational conflict, but what we are asking is, 'Let's have a seat at the table.' "

Among the potential changes being discussed at that table are raising the retirement age, increasing taxes, and encouraging Americans to save more on their own. Robert Bixby, executive director of the Concord Coalition, which advocates fiscal responsibility, suggests a mandatory savings program where people would contribute money that would go into a personal account. "If we made a national mandatory savings plan, younger people would benefit from that, because over a working lifetime, they'd be likely to do fairly well.... It would help boost the benefit back to where they might have been before you had to make cuts," he says.

Kotlikoff adds that because the stock market and real estate markets have seen such drops, young people could also benefit by buying up cheaper assets now.

Adds Dongala, "This issue need not be something that divides us. This is something we should be united around so we can protect the future interests of all Americans."
Copyrighted, U.S.News & World Report, L.P. All rights reserved.

 
Looks like they have a solution for us:


  1. Raising the retirement age
  2. Increasing taxes
  3. Creating the national mandatory savings plan
To sum it up, we will have to work more and get paid less. Sounds like an amazing deal for young people.

And on a top of that, we will "benefit" by buying up cheaper assets now. What a great idea! Warren Buffet and other wise guys don't want to "benefit" by buying now, but young people definitely will. Something is wrong here...
 
Say, how are the benefits at other advanced country for retired people? I may join those so called expatriates if the numbers work out :)

I live in a basement apartment on the outskirts of Oslo. The house is valued at 6.2 million kroner (about $1m). The owner and inhabitant of the house calls himself a pensioner but in the last few months he has taken a three-week holiday in Brazil and a one-week holiday in Spain. He has a hytta (a cottage in the forest) where he goes for extended weekends. On the downside, he was paying about 50% of his salary as tax for decades. Now he's collecting enough for a very comfortable and relaxed lifestyle. An hour ago, he and his wife got on their cycles to attend yet another evening party. Scandinavia is a retiree's paradise -- but you have to have been contributing to the system to get the benefits. Still, it seems preferable to the US system, which I see as a con. There's still some vestige of a social contract in Europe (leaving out the UK).
 
Looks like they have a solution for us:


  1. Raising the retirement age
  2. Increasing taxes
  3. Creating the national mandatory savings plan
To sum it up, we will have to work more and get paid less.


Yup. There is no doubt in my mind that higher taxes and inflation are ahead. How else will the government pay back all the money it owes? The thing is, politics leads us to cut taxes (benefits the current generation at the expense of future generations) or spend money on non-productive spending (also benefits us at the expense of future generations). We don't do a lot of investing anymore, where money we borrow today is invested in something that benefits future generations who have to pay it back. So at some point, some generation will have to pay more. Hopefully they can be productive enough to take the hit.

Plus, inflation means the dollars you earn will be worth less of course.

Plus, there is no SS money. We put it with the rest of the gov's money and we don't even count it as a liability (50-something trillion). We should probably stop fooling ourselves and drop the notion of SS and put it with the rest of the taxes.
 
How else will the government pay back all the money it owes?

Stop enormous government spending? During election Obama promised to pull out troops from Iraq by 2009. This week he asked congress for another $80 B for wars in Iraq and Afganistan and was granted it. Current administration, to solve almost any issue it faces, introduces new government agencies, supervisors etc. Government is groving more and more, spendings are increasing, country doesn't produce much which can be sold overseas for profit.

Even if taxes will be increased to 99% it won't help to repay debt. This can patch some holes in the near future, but also will make problem much bigger than it is now.
 
How else will the government pay back all the money it owes?

It can't. It won't. It's going to be the mother of all defaults. Or it will inflate the problem away (which is also defaulting). Looking at the public accounts of the USA should not be done while sober -- one might go insane. The US is literally tens of trillions in the hole.
 
The good part is that US debt is in US dollars, so basically we can print money to repay it. Inflation is going to enormous. However, with this inflation Dow and S&P500 will skyrocket "proving" that stimulus package worked.
 
The good part is that US debt is in US dollars, so basically we can print money to repay it.

The losers will be those holding US Treasuries and dollars. That's why foreign governments like China are presently on a worldwide buying spree, willing to pay over the odds with their dollars (known as "trash for assets").

Inflation is going to enormous. However, with this inflation Dow and S&P500 will skyrocket "proving" that stimulus package worked.

Won't be able to make such claims if tent cities continue proliferating and joblessness keeps rising. The country's in seriously bad shape and the monkeys in charge of the nation's affairs are completely clueless.
 
And while we have SS and Medicare in the title of this thread, let's not forget about the health care bill being discussed by the administration. One on hand, we have a broken system. On the other hand, fixing it may be a big fiscal mistake.
It's a tough, tough mess that being passed down to Obama.
 
Immigration reform: working on it
Banking reform: working on it

IMHO, immigration reform is just talk. immigrants don't vote (they might but it's not guaranteed). However, Banking reform could happen unless "lobbies" (sp?) are able to stop it before.
 
wikipedia to the rescue
Lobbying - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A lobbyist is a person who tries to influence legislation on behalf of a special interest or a member of a lobby. Governments often define and regulate organized group lobbying which has become very influential on policy.

Lobbies in the USA constitute the de facto US government. Congressmen, senators, and presidents are just puppets and figureheads. Not saying it's a good thing or bad thing -- just sayin'.

There will be no real finance or banking reform (which should make everyone who works on the Street happy). There may be some noise about it, but nothing will come of it. Like the health care travesty. If you glance at the forces in play, the idea is to try to keep the system in place -- no matter how volatile or unsustainable it's shown itself to be -- and place the increasing costs of failure on the ordinary citizen (savage public expenditure cutbacks, increasing unemployment). Since the ordinary US citizen is a retarded chump, this strategy will work. If you don't believe me, just look at the health care "reform" that's been passed.
 
Uncle Max,
And you thought nothing, anything will ever get done in Congress. Don't underestimate our law makers ;)

Well, this so called "reform" doesn't not reform anything to fix problems in health care system. Taxpayers are going to pay 1 trillion dollars to benefit medical companies. They say that 46 million Americans will get medical insurance? Yes, because they will have to pay $700 fee per year if they don't have one. What a joke.

You can see all this kind of reforms here: El Presidente
 
Well, this so-called "reform" doesn't reform anything to fix problems in health care system.

It's a pay-to-play political system in the US. Those lobbies that have paid have got "reform" that suits them. Corruption isn't some aberration in the system but part of its day-to-day functioning. There have been numerous criticisms of the "reform"; a couple of the better ones are this one:

Spiraling health care costs threaten to bring the system to a halt, with a crisis not unlike that of the 2008 financial meltdown. The problem, however, must be solved within the framework of capitalism, without damaging the material interests of the major corporations in the field.

The reality, of course, is that the working class must be forced to pick up an increasing portion of the costs of health care.

So in the face of that threat of unpleasantness, the two parties have a division of labor, which must not spoil popular perceptions of either of them. The Democrats need to pose as champions of the popular classes they ostensibly represent; the Republicans must appear to champion the "free market."

To the Democrats falls the task of passing the corporate bailout "Republican" bill. They have the majority in Congress. Their problem is how to sell this to their base, with the growing anger against for-profit health insurers complicating matters.

And this one:

This bill is not about fiscal responsibility or the common good. The bill is about increasing corporate profit at taxpayer expense. It is the health care industry's version of the Wall Street bailout. It lavishes hundreds of billions in government subsidies on insurance and drug companies. The some 3,000 health care lobbyists in Washington, whose dirty little hands are all over the bill, have once more betrayed the American people for money. The bill is another example of why change will never come from within the Democratic Party. The party is owned and managed by corporations. The five largest private health insurers and their trade group, America's Health Insurance Plans, spent more than $6 million on lobbying in the first quarter of 2009. Pfizer, the world's biggest drug maker, spent more than $9 million during the last quarter of 2008 and the first three months of 2009.
 
So what's the alternative? Leave those who can't afford health insurance out, because 250K+ earning individuals can't afford a little extra taxes? In the end this is going to bring the deficit down. This is not a bad thing.

We're expanding healthcare to include people that weren't eligible under Medicare. And we're also going to offer tax credits to those who can't afford insurance right now. The money may end up in the medical companies' coffers, but only by increasing their client base. More people with health insurance seems like a good thing for this country.

There are in my opinion more benefits than not in this plan. Clicky
 
So what's the alternative?

The alternatives were never allowed into discussion (for instance, single-payer). The "debate" was channeled along certain narrow lines to predetermined conclusions. Those who pay the piper call the tune.

There are in my opinion more benefits than not in this plan. Clicky

There are a few crumbs for the public. These are listed in your link. They are more than counterbalanced (to put it mildly) by the advantages that will accrue to insurance, HMOs, and pharma. This is corporate wealthfare. Not making a moral judgement here. In any case, I never expected anything else.
 
Although not specifically to what everyone has been saying... Here is something interesting.

The republicans were/are so against the bill. They kept saying the bill is un-constitutional, etc etc and said that this wasn't about party politics but about the American People and how this bill is the death of all living things basically.

I was reading online and looking at various articles and arguments on this bill/law and came accross something interesting.

Now here are some of the key points of this law.

Universal access to health insurance coverage, in part through premium assistance to low-income individuals who don't quality for Medicaid (ultimately up to 240% of the federal poverty line)

A mandate on employers to provide health insurance plans to employees

Requirements for qualified heath plans to meet standards of guaranteed eligibility, availability, and renewability of health insurance coverage

nondiscrimination based on health status (i.e. eliminating pre-existing conditions)

benefits offered

insurer financial solvency

enrollment process

premium rating limitations (allowing variation in premiums based only on age and family)

risk adjustment

consumer protection

The formation of individual and small employer purchasing groups

Requirements that the Secretary of Health and Human Services, in consultation with the Secretary of Labor, establish standards for large employer plans similar to requirements applicable to small employer plans

Formation of a Benefits Commission to develop a standard (minimum) benefits package that any qualified health benefits plan must offer

Enumeration of state responsibilities in implementing state insurance market reforms

An individual mandate requiring all citizens to be covered by a health plan

Certain alterations to tax law, including an excise tax for excess contributions to medical care savings accounts

Quality assurance programs, including the creation of a national health data system

Medical liability reform, including a requirement that states adopt an alternative dispute resolution method for the resolution of health care malpractice claims

Efforts to fight fraud and abuse in federal health programs

Efforts to bolster the primary care workforce


Sound about right? Maybe some things might not be worded properly so point it out but seems like the general idea?

Now, I can't claim to have written that list myself. I found bits and pieces online but I think it outlines the general tenet of the bill.

Except, this bill was proposed & sponsored by Republican Senator John Chafee in 1993. Don't believe me? Try looking up ""The Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993" . The points stated above are from a bill that bill.

But wait, that looks fairly similar to a current bill that just passed, right? Well yes, yes it does. And what does that tell you? It tells you that a good majority of Republican opposition to that bill (that passed Sunday) clearly was not due to it being bad policy or due to it being bad ideology. No, the opposition is strictly along party lines, especially since that 1993 bill included in its cosponsors Sens. Orrin Hatch, Chuck Grassley, Bob Bennett, Christopher "Kit" Bond, and Richard Lugar, all of whom are currently still in the Senate. Hell, Bob Dole cosponsored that bill.

So why, then, is it that a Democratic bill that is extremely similar to an old Republican bill got so much heat from Republicans?


For a better comparison.... Comparison of the two bills

Republicans and the media that support them have been going at this health care reform law/bill day and night. Why? This law is similar to what they wanted. Is this just because now the democrats are passing this? Yes, the fiscal deficit and other factors have some things to do with it, but some of the major arguments are that this law is going to 'kill babies', 'kill old people', have a death panel, etc etc etc.

But ,yeah. I found this interesting and thought I would toss it here for discussion. If this is already mentioned I apologize. Ignore all of this. lol
 
The Republicans were/are so against the bill. They kept saying the bill is un-constitutional, etc etc and said that this wasn't about party politics but about the American People and how this bill is the death of all living things basically.

They were just playing a role. It's all hogwash.

Except, this bill was proposed & sponsored by Republican Senator John Chafee in 1993. Don't believe me? Try looking up ""The Health Equity and Access Reform Today Act of 1993" . The points stated above are from a bill that bill.

Why stop there? Go back to what Nixon proposed in 1974(?) That was to the left of this 2000-page piece of rubbish. The devil's in the details. The 2000 pages are there to confuse and obfuscate, to make it impossible to see the wood for the trees. For instance, an insurer cannot deny coverage because of a pre-existing condition. Really? And at what premium exactly? Or is this left to the discretion of the insurer? Premium assistance to low-income individuals. Really? Or is it to be phased in slowly, and are there conditions the low-income individual must comply with in order to be eligible? Some of the other benefits are just meaningless verbiage that are effectively meaningless. And how and why does this big con work? Because most Americans can't read at more than an 8th grade level, and don't have the time and patience to work through the small print to understand how they're getting shafted. That's what all the patient and high-cost lobbying and legal work is all about. That's why lawyers in DC are no different to costly strumpets.

---------- Post added at 04:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:27 PM ----------

A satirical speech at Counterpunch, ostensibly by Obama, which sums up my feelings:

These poor wretches -- who now must face the wrath of Kos and the wroth of Rahm for their tragic apostasy -- are simply not savvy enough to see that our 2,000-page boondogglepalooza, riddled with fine-print exceptions, toothless regulations (which we will 'enforce' every bit as rigorously as Wall Street has been regulated all these years), impenetrable phase-in and phase-out schedules, and mild benefits that won't even begin kicking in for years -- and that even after a decade will still leave millions of people uncovered -- is much better than a simple, streamlined system that could be implemented by the end of this year, bringing genuine relief from intolerable, life-degrading financial burdens and medical problems to millions and millions of people in dire need right away.

Listen, Hedgie: If the plan was to reform the health care system for the benefit of the people, then we would have, like, reformed the health care system for the benefit of the people. You follow? The plan was, is, and will always be to appear to be reforming the system -- to make the rubes believe that something is being done to alleviate their pain -- precisely to avoid really reforming the system, which is just too good and greasy for too many of us at the top of the imperial pyramid.

And when this plan fails -- as it will, as it will -- then you rig up another boondoggle, another "great debate" full of sound and fury, signifying zilch, to keep the rubes at bay. Meanwhile, we can get on to the real job our corporate colleagues and patrons want us to do -- bringing that other old dream of social amelioration for the common folk to an end at last: Social Security.
 
Tanning Tax One of the ways to pay for the health care reform law.


I am all for bad habits that can get you killed being taxed.

According to the Academy, indoor tanning before the age of 35 is linked to a 75% increase in the risk of melanoma, the deadliest form of skin cancer, which has also become more common in young females. Meanwhile, nearly 30 million Americans hit the tanning beds each year and about 2.3 million of these people are teenagers.
 
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