COMPARE TOP 3 MFE programs in terms of Placement?

[vuze]

http://tepper.cmu.edu/master-in-computational-finance/your-career/statistics/index.aspx

I tried to find this info as well but I ended up looking over the employment report. Nevertheless lordvid has a post to retract as promised.

 

[CN Chen]

And anything Baruch is aggressively defended here... be it summer or winter

Having read many, many of the posts here for over a year now, I definitely would agree with that assessment. I feel QuantNet has a pro-Baruch spin because so many of its active members (admin included) are Baruch alums or students. It makes sense for alums to defend their decision to attend Baruch, but in order to claim objectivity at some point you have to draw the line between constructive input and blatant marketing efforts on Baruch's behalf.

I'm not saying that pro-Baruch arguments aren't facts-based, but rather it seems discussions are framed in a way that the specific factors cited will paint Baruch in a better light than most other programs (to the exclusion of other factors which may be just as important). For example, Baruch's three biggest competitive advantages are transparency, cost, and the relatively larger programming element of its curriculum. When talking about top programs, members generally harp on the following: Top programs must have transparency or else they are hiding something. Cost is more important than university brand name. Programming should be weighted higher (I assume at the cost of less mathematical rigor or financial knowledge). So obviously in that light, Baruch is a top program. I actually agree with that assessment, but maybe I have been brainwashed from listening to so many pro-Baruch comments, haha.

I personally think that it's great for Baruch to have such a great marketing tool since QuantNet is pretty much the only active resource for newbies applying to MFE programs. However, my reservation is that I feel it might be a little misleading to those who don't realize that a large percentage of active members have an interest in promoting Baruch. Andy, I think this website is absolutely a great resource, but hopefully I am giving some constructive feedback to help QuantNet become more objective.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

The world is a much better place if every conversation is conducted in a civil and respectful manner like CN Chen did. He is spot on about the large number of active Baruch MFE member base here leading to that effect. To get a good number of people from other programs active here is no easy task. I believe it only fair to ask everyone to contribute by bringing your friends, classmates to Quantnet. Your opinion is only heard when you speak.

 

[Lyosha]

Columbia published the salary info for their top-tier program (only). It's kind of stale, and a large number of their students did not respond...

http://www.ieor.columbia.edu/pages/graduate/ms_financial_eng/fe_career_information.html

 

[lordvid]

http://tepper.cmu.edu/master-in-computational-finance/your-career/statistics/index.aspx

Thank you Devdeep...I didn't know about that.
I retract my claim earlier....CMU also posts salaries

 

[Devdeep]

Thank you Devdeep...I didn't know about that.
I retract my claim earlier....CMU also posts salaries

hah hah...

CMU's statistics is very detailed... I guess these are standard for Business schools... not sure tho...

 

[mcgruber]

Paul Mithouard, I am sorry for my post...it was uncalled for.

Despite the appearances that this forum (Quantnet) is generally pro-Baruch and anti-Columbia...I am not cheering for one camp or the other. I am not associated with Quantnet either.

..........................

.

I agree with you... There is a huge anti-Columbia sentiment here. Also Princeton/Stanford are not spared. Posters here will come up with excuses like "bank balance drain" to make their point which I think is just sad. I don't think most of current students in the top programs (Princeton, Stanford, Columbia, NYU, even Berkeley ) have time (or willigness) to post on this forum, due to this bias.

And to compare different MFE programs, quality of placements is important, but the first thing that should be considered is the "quality" of students applying (and selected) to the program. Baruch MFE is a good local program but most high quality applicants (US and international fresh undergraduates from top schools) most probably would not even consider applying to Baruch. That's one of the things (but not the only one) the prospective employers have in mind when they hire from these top programs.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I agree with you... There is a huge anti-Columbia sentiment here. Also Princeton/Stanford are not spared. Posters here will come up with excuses like "bank balance drain" to make their point which I think is just sad. I don't think most of current students in the top programs (Princeton, Stanford, Columbia, NYU, even Berkeley ) have time (or willigness) to post on this forum, due to this bias.

Thanks for your input. Appreciate it.
I'm interested in seeing links to those claims that "There is a huge anti-Columbia sentiment here" or any other claim. Which posts? Which posters?
For ages, people going to public schools are going to argue for value/ROI while people going to private schools argue for brand names/etc.

And let put some constructive thoughts into this: you sign up here not to discredit Quantnet but genuinely want to help and improve the community, improve the signal/noise ratio, right?

If you have any idea, I'm here 24/7 for you suggestions.

 

[mcgruber]

Thanks for your input. Appreciate it.
For ages, people going to public schools are going to argue for value/ROI while people going to private schools argue for brand names/etc.

And let put some constructive thoughts into this: you sign up here not to discredit Quantnet but genuinely want to help and improve the community, improve the signal/noise ratio, right?

If you have any idea, I'm here 24/7 for you suggestions.

Andy, I am not suggesting Quantnet promotes this bias, but the forum has become biased due to higher level of Baruch MFE current and former students participation. Even the faculty jumps in quite often. Time and again I have seen Baruch students patting each other's backs and sucking-up to the faculty at any opportunity they get. This at times attains comedic proportions. This surely gives an impression of Quantnet being a Baruch MFE club.

As for the ROI between Private/Public education, I would use the USA Visa demand as an analogy. So many people dislike US but VISA lines at the consulates keep getting longer every year. So, those who can't get in the Ivy's or other world-class institutions, look for inappropriate reasons.

 

[mfegrad]

Your analogy is quite far off.

A lot of so called elite undergraduate institutions have come under fire for peddling their brochures to unqualified students. Why? To keep the yield high so they give the impression of being more selective.

The appeal of many of the brand name mfes is the brand name, regardless of the quality of the program and placements. I don't think I'm mistaken or out of line when I say that brand name often trumps all for a large swath of people, especially students from overseas.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

@mcgruber, see post by @CN Chen #62 and my response right below it. Nobody argues your point about large and active presence of Baruch students here.
Surely you have suggestions to encourage the same level of presence and activity from other programs' body?

I'm still interested in your claims that there are anti-Columbia/Stanford/Princeton/Ivy program here. It is one thing that people who post things that they have no idea about. It's drastically another thing that people intentionally and systematically campaign against such schools.

I have seen too many of the first group everywhere I go (this is the internet after all) but I don't believe anyone suggests the second is happening here.

 

[lordvid]

First of all, mcgruber, I didn't say this forum has "a huge anti-Columbia sentiment". To be fair, mcgruber--neither you, nor I, knows who everyone here is, and where they are students...so it may be irrational to surmise further. For example, how do you know I am not a Columbia student? Maybe if I ran this forum, Lady Columbia would be burned in effigy on an hourly basis...

Secondly, this thread has become derailed...Quantnet and Quantnet posts are not on trial here.

What is on trial here is whether (and if not, why) programs publically release detailed salaries for internships and starting jobs of their graduating students.

My personal take is that these details ought to constitute a major factor in determining "TOP 3 MFE Programs in terms of Placements".

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Thanks for bringing this back to topic, lorvid.

What is on trial here is if (and why not) programs publically release detailed salaries for internships and starting jobs of their graduating students.

The mindset and attitude among many people (specially foreign students who made up of MFE applicant pool) that "If it's Ivy, their MFE program must be good" and "Programs don't publish stats, because they don't have to. They already have too many applicants" are very dangerous and counterproductive.
People are basically shooting themselves and future students in the foot and when they discover it's not all honey and sugar, there is nobody to blame.

The right approach would be to evaluate programs based on enough transparent data to make the right decision. If people don't bother ask the data, they can't go around say somebody else is anti-Columbia/Stanford because other people have questioned why Columbia/Stanford do not release job placement.

Need I remind people http://www.quantnet.com/forum/threads/mfe-programs-transparency-project.6578/

 

[bhandarivaibhav]

Its almost a year now since I considered taking up FE. And I must admit I used to wonder at times why there aint many posts from students of top tier schools like Princeton, Stanford. Also the fact that there are so many posts from Baruch students, which is a relatively small program in terms of no. of students.

Whatever be the reason, I dont agree to the argument that there have been intentional irrational posts about other schools. Maybe that students of Baruch are the most active junta on this forum, but that encourages a lot of healthy discussions that take place on this forum. I used to read pages and pages of useful information at Quantnet when I was faced a hurdle in this whole application process. I really appreciate the efforts of the people here in creating a solid forum (with a great UI now ) and it does help the incoming students in a lot of intangible ways.

Talking about anti-Columbia MSOR sentiment, I would like to mention that it is the place where I am heading to. I would like to give Quantnet a credit to all the admits I got (also the admits I missed by a whisker), and literally guiding me through every step. Hope I can continue contributing here as I proceed ahead with the course.

 

[atreides]

And I must admit I used to wonder at times why there aint many posts from students of top tier schools like Princeton, Stanford. Also the fact that there are so many posts from Baruch students, which is a relatively small program in terms of no. of students.

I have always wondered the same thing. Quantnet is probably one of the defacto Quant portals now. Though it had it's roots at Baruch, you'd think there'd be much more traffic from other MFE schools. Maybe there is, and folks don't put that affiliation out there.

 

[sgupt]

Even i agree..ppl here at quantnet r really awsm n helpful..
Regarding princeton, stanford guys..they may be having "superiority" complex or its just that many ppl dont apply there..

 

[sgupt]

One thing i forgot to mention...everybody waits and follows Quantnet's program ratings.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I have always wondered the same thing. Quantnet is probably one of the defacto Quant portals now. Though it had it roots at Baruch, you'd think there'd be much more traffic from other MFE schools. Maybe there is, and folks don't put that affiliation out there.

We have members who are directors/staff/alum/current students of almost all programs you can think of, as far as Hawaii MFE to the local programs like NYU/Columbia/CMU/Princeton/Rutgers.
It's true that they don't always use their real names or proudly put their affiliation on their profile. Or post frequently.
But I have interacted with many of them privately over the years to know they are reading and following Quantnet silently.

One of the biggest upside of having a good presence here (for example the Baruch program) that nobody has mentioned so far is that prospective students have a channel of communication to ask for unfiltered opinion. You don't have to ask the Dept to put you in contact with alum/current students, you come in here and send the guys a private message. If you have open access to everyone from the director down, I think it's a great thing.

 

[CharlesT]

Thanks for bringing this back to topic, lorvid.

The mindset and attitude among many people (specially foreign students who made up of MFE applicant pool) that "If it's Ivy, their MFE program must be good" and "Programs don't publish stats, because they don't have to. They already have too many applicants" are very dangerous and counterproductive.
People are basically shooting themselves and future students in the foot and when they discover it's not all honey and sugar, there is nobody to blame.

The right approach would be to evaluate programs based on enough transparent data to make the right decision. If people don't bother ask the data, they can't go around say somebody else is anti-Columbia/Stanford because other people have questioned why Columbia/Stanford do not release job placement.

Need I remind people http://www.quantnet.com/forum/threads/mfe-programs-transparency-project.6578/

I'm really happy to see that you are pushing the transparency project which is helpful to prospective students. But why not first doing a transparency project on your own ranking??

Can you please list the rankings of the specific catergories below separately? I believe it can help students better choose the programs they like. Do you think so?

Employer Survey Score (25%)Placement Success (50%)
Starting Salary (20%) Employment Rate at Graduation (10%) Employment Rate Three Months after Graduation (15%) Students/Administrator Ratio (5%)
Student selectivity (25%)
GRE Scores (10%)
Undergraduate GPA (5%)
Acceptance Rate (10%)

But even you do this, it really doens't make sense to compare placements. For example, UCB's class is full of students with plenty of work experience, how can you compare it with a program where the majority of students are fresh graduates? I'm not familiar with Baruch, but students who are interested in this program can do their own research.

Starting Salary (20%) doesn't make any sense! For example, in UCB, most students take associate positions. But for fresh graduates, they can only go to junior roles. How can you compare associate level salaries with junior anlyst level salaries. Doesn't make any sense!

The placement result depends mostly on the backgrounds of entering students. I know you know that well, and you have done a very good job in setting up this website and attracting good students to Baruch.