U.S. Schools Expelled 8,000 Chinese Students

[bigbadwolf]

People (including Chinese students) have been expelled from top MFE programs for cheating. I guarantee you that. At my program we had several lengthy sessions about ethics and academic integrity and these are taken very seriously.

There are sound self-interested reasons for this: the reputation and credibility of the program are at stake. That reputation and credibility in the job marketplace is what keeps top-ranking programs alive. It allows them to place their graduates in ranking banks and companies, and this allows them to charge stellar fees and attract the best students. It's a virtuous cycle. In contrast, Dogdick University MFE/MFM has a different dynamic. It has no reputation or credibility to maintain (they don't exist). The raison d'etre for the program is to fleece foreign students, who return to their home country. It doesn't give a rat's ass that the students are cheating (not that much of anything is being taught in any case). All it depends on is that the fleeced students not broadcast in public on how they were had -- the continuing con depends on it. The point is that the cheating is taking place within a context of compromised academic standards and cynical admissions and administrative practices. It takes two to tango.

 

[Zhenghao Li]

Uh

First, doing drugs and dealing drugs are two very different things. I honestly don't know why drugs, in general, entered this thread. But I may as well mention that...;

Second, comparing drugs and cheating is apples and oranges. Saying that someone enjoys drugs => they're likely to cheat is like saying someone enjoys oranges => they're likely to enjoy apples

This is all ambiguous, how much is 8000 really? People here should know better; that a number on its own isn't that meaningful. It needs another number to compare against. Some statistical analysis, yeah?

It's funny how ridiculous some of the posts here are haha

Drugs entered this thread because the thread is talking about people getting expelled in the first place, not people cheating. Some other posts just brought the topic to the wrong direction. In that aspect, cheating and doing/dealing drugs are probably the most reasons why people get expelled. I know they're different buy they all pose really bad influence in college environment. AND I don't think doing drugs and dealing drugs are that different since you have to get the drugs from a dealer in the first place. Drug doers and dealers are just equally responsible in that respect. Unless you're doing it in a legalized way. (I always argue the best way to control drug is to legalize it).

Other than that, I totally agree what you are saying. I've seen so many American students cheated and got expelled/suspended...If you ever pay attention to the hearing board at the end of each semester, most people going there are American people (Trust me, I know it :D) It's just how funny some of the posts above are. It's just some people are stupid, not their race or culture. Come on.......

Others aside, I would say from my experience, the good colleges in the U.S. definitely deserve their reputation. Most of these rampant cheating doesn't happen in prestigious places (although I'm pretty sure I've seen/heard of some)........

 

[IntoDarkness]

i dont understand why ppl think doing drugs == absolutely wrong. probably because they never done it before. often times its a mentally transformational experience to a better end.

 

[DannyF]

*****based on my experience*****

The reason Americans think Chinese cheat (and that it is cultural) is that Asian-Americans say it, and joke about it. 10/12 of my Asian-American friends in undergrad cheated (Yes, I counted), and one got suspended. They say that Chinese in China cheat more, but I believe they were joking.

I'm not too worried about Chinese cheating. At the end of the day, I think Chinese FE students are highly qualified. The Chinese-born students I have met are fine - some exceptional, some strugglers, some average, all extremely likeable. So this is not a big deal to me. Sometimes people get stressed and desperate, because school in a foreign country is just hard.

 

[dunzaicuntou]

*****based on my experience*****

The reason Americans think Chinese cheat (and that it is cultural) is that Asian-Americans say it, and joke about it. 10/12 of my Asian-American friends in undergrad cheated (Yes, I counted), and one got suspended. They say that Chinese in China cheat more, but I believe they were joking.

I'm not too worried about Chinese cheating. At the end of the day, I think Chinese FE students are highly qualified. The Chinese-born students I have met are fine - some exceptional, some strugglers, some average, all extremely likeable. So this is not a big deal to me. Sometimes people get stressed and desperate, because school in a foreign country is just hard.

Finally comes someone who speaks the truth...

During my three years college life in the US, I found people most unfriendly to students from China were those Chinese Americans... Every second they are ready to claim that they are actually Americans and they are superior than the Chinese students. as if these people are gonna die if they do not talk shit about China and Chinese. If you unfortunately mistake a Chinese american for a Chinese Chinese, he would look like he is gonna kill you the next second... I just don't understand why these ignorant morons with Chinese blood hate Chinese most.... Can you help me out ? @Gavin L @tostii

Guys, mommy and daddy work hard cooking Chinese food and washing dishes day and night to have you become a well-educated man, not an imbecile hater.

 

[Gavin L]

Finally comes someone who speaks the truth...

During my three years college life in the US, I found people most unfriendly to students from China were those Chinese Americans... Every second they are ready to claim that they are actually Americans and they are superior than the Chinese students. as if these people are gonna die if they do not talk shit about China and Chinese. If you unfortunately mistake a Chinese american for a Chinese Chinese, he would look like he is gonna kill you the next second... I just don't understand why these ignorant morons with Chinese blood hate Chinese most.... Can you help me out ? @Gavin L @tostii

Guys, mommy and daddy work hard cooking Chinese food and washing dishes day and night to have you become a well-educated man, not an imbecile hater.

I think it's due to several reasons. Implicitly, the way the west portrays China in the west is often an image of uncouth individuals who have no manners or humanity (videos of those babies being run over and not being helped, the way they spit, their ignorance for how loud they are *actually* speaking). Thus, many people brought up in the west have these views (portrayed by media outlets and Chinese fearing organisations) implicit to them. Thus when they see a group of Chinese international students speaking Mandarin in the library, for example, all these thoughts come to mind. It is a stereotype and its very judgmental.

The reason why Chinese people born in the west find it easy to target Chinese international students is because they can get away with it. They themselves feel like just by being Chinese, they are allowed to speak badly about 'their own', when in fact that is a contradiction. They are speaking as American born Americans, insulting Chinese born people behind a veil of their skin colour. You don't usually see white/black/non-Chinese people blatantly insulting international students, because they don't have this 'excuse'. They would be labelled as racists and white bigots. But the Chinese people brought up in the west can freely say these things without being held against too badly.

Unfortunately, however, many of the stereotypes end up manifesting in one way or the other, so there is not enough 'evidence' for judgmental people to change their ways of thinking. Some common examples are talking loudly in Mandarin in a library (this does happen, and the Alexandra Wallace incident is proof that whites can't get away with 'Chinese-shaming' but if an Asian said that, I think it'd be a different story.) and speaking in Mandarin in a group assignment when some people do not speak Mandarin (I have seen this happen and find that it would be terrible for the person who cannot speak Mandarin - moreover, these are English speaking universities.) It is totally natural to revert to your mother tongue, but try your best to speak English when around non-Chinese speakers.

There is also something that is non-Chinese specific. I think it's less so Chinese against non-Chinese, more American born against foreigner. I'm sure if you said to a XYZ looking person that they look XYZ, but are in fact ABC, where XYZ are stereotyped with bad qualities, they would be annoyed.

I would like to continue this conversation, though, as I am really interested in such relationships

 

[dunzaicuntou]

I think it's due to several reasons. Implicitly, the way the west portrays China in the west is often an image of uncouth individuals who have no manners or humanity (videos of those babies being run over and not being helped, the way they spit, their ignorance for how loud they are *actually* speaking). Thus, many people brought up in the west have these views (portrayed by media outlets and Chinese fearing organisations) implicit to them. Thus when they see a group of Chinese international students speaking Mandarin in the library, for example, all these thoughts come to mind. It is a stereotype and its very judgmental.

The reason why Chinese people born in the west find it easy to target Chinese international students is because they can get away with it. They themselves feel like just by being Chinese, they are allowed to speak badly about 'their own', when in fact that is a contradiction. They are speaking as American born Americans, insulting Chinese born people behind a veil of their skin colour. You don't usually see white/black/non-Chinese people blatantly insulting international students, because they don't have this 'excuse'. They would be labelled as racists and white bigots. But the Chinese people brought up in the west can freely say these things without being held against too badly.

Unfortunately, however, many of the stereotypes end up manifesting in one way or the other, so there is not enough 'evidence' for judgmental people to change their ways of thinking. Some common examples are talking loudly in Mandarin in a library (this does happen, and the Alexandra Wallace incident is proof that whites can't get away with 'Chinese-shaming' but if an Asian said that, I think it'd be a different story.) and speaking in Mandarin in a group assignment when some people do not speak Mandarin (I have seen this happen and find that it would be terrible for the person who cannot speak Mandarin - moreover, these are English speaking universities.) It is totally natural to revert to your mother tongue, but try your best to speak English when around non-Chinese speakers.

There is also something that is non-Chinese specific. I think it's less so Chinese against non-Chinese, more American born against foreigner. I'm sure if you said to a XYZ looking person that they look XYZ, but are in fact ABC, where XYZ are stereotyped with bad qualities, they would be annoyed.

I would like to continue this conversation, though, as I am really interested in such relationships

Some of your points do make sense.

If there is a contest of " Who Speaks Loudest in an American Library", the winner would definitely not be international students but somebody else... There are also people who like to fill the entire library with the smell of their food... People are much less tolerant of those who speak a foreign language.

 

[tostii]

It really is not as simple as "Chinese people born in the west find it easy to target Chinese international students is because they can get away with it." From my own experiences, I was born in China and when I moved to the United States, I was the target of bullying simply due to the fact I was not white. There was a period in my life that I really did not want to identify with being Chinese. But now that I am older and more comfortable with who I am, I accept both the Chinese and American part of my identity. I have lots of friends who are from China because at the end of the day, I do feel more comfortable interacting with them.

Some of my American Born Chinese friends simply do not identify with Chinese culture. I wouldn't say they hate Chinese people, they just do not think of themselves as Chinese. If we are making general statements, Americans are just as unfriendly to Asian international students as their American-born counterparts.

 

[dunzaicuntou]

From my own experiences, I was born in China and when I moved to the United States, I was the target of bullying simply due to the fact I was not white. There was a period in my life that I really did not want to identify with being Chinese.

So true...

One of my American born Chinese friends once told me how he wishes he were white...

 

[tostii]

We are all living in a white man's world