U.S. Schools Expelled 8,000 Chinese Students

[pingu]

"Unlike American students who more frequently enter programs that fit their capabilities, Chinese students care most about the reputation of the school, trying hard to get into the top universities. But in reality they are not always prepared to study in highly-competitive programs, said Mr. Chen. More than half of the Chinese students expelled were from top 100 U.S. universities, the survey found. Cheating at exams, plagiarism and finding other students to write papers for them were frequently cited as the specific causes of expulsion, the survey showed."

http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/...00-chinese-students-for-poor-grades-cheating/

Has anybody seen any in current MFE programs?

 

[TehRaio]

When daddy and mommy pay for school, it's easier to wrap your mind around being a cheat.

 

[bigbadwolf]

With regard to Chinese cheating in the US, believe me that it's only the tip of the iceberg.

 

[tostii]

Look at some of the MFE applicants from China with numerous internships and supposed experience. There isn't even really a infrastructure in China where interns will ever do meaningful work (though there are some exceptions), it's all about boosting their profile because they know American universities value it. For example, you can get an internship at Citibank in China if you parents have enough money in their account. You don't really do anything but you get a piece of paper saying you did an internship there. No schools have the resources to fact check everything on an application, but I am sure people are aware of it.

 

[TehRaio]

guys, please, stop giving me ideas :/

 

[amraj]

With regard to Chinese cheating in the US, believe me that it's only the tip of the iceberg.

Could you expand slightly? I'm just curious.

 

[Gavin L]

It's the same in Australia as well. But the Australian unis need their funds... Recently in some Sydney based universities, a cheating company that catered for Chinese international students was exposed by a newspaper and several students expelled.

I'm also certain that many English qualifications are forged.

 

[TehRaio]

Even Chinese goods are second-hand and forged. No surprise in the students forging their applications or exams. Seems a problem with the culture more than anything else.

that's not so true anymore, right?
after all, aren't most of the stuff we buy made in china these days...

 

[TehRaio]

It'd be interesting to check that against the same stats on students expelled in the US globally.
the article doesn't say how much of that is cheating, and how much is just poor performance.

 

[bigbadwolf]

Even Chinese goods are second-hand and forged. No surprise in the students forging their applications or exams. Seems a problem with the culture more than anything else.

The culture of pervasive and endemic cheating in China is one aspect. Secondly, for them the expense is something big -- they don't want the investment to come to nothing. Thirdly, language problems factor in. And therefore all types of, er, unethical academic work become inevitable.

 

[whatismyname]

This number seems huge because there are even larger number of Chinese students studying in US right now. Also according to China’s Ministry of Education, there are over a million Chinese studying overseas right now. So I assume half of them are in US and that makes about 2% of them expelled last year.

I myself is attending a top MFE program. I would say most of the Chinese in my program are top in their country, and they can get A in class without studying very hard, let alone cheating. And of course, many of them can get decent jobs here in US.

 

[Bid Shader]

The culture of pervasive and endemic cheating in China is one aspect.

Any evidence that China has a culture of pervasive and endemic cheating, or just your impression? This is a serious question - I am curious if there is any research that studies behavior patterns like this in different countries using similar methodologies.

 

[C S]

Any evidence that China has a culture of pervasive and endemic cheating, or just your impression? This is a serious question - I am curious if there is any research that studies behavior patterns like this in different countries using similar methodologies.

I think it's not as clear cut as the discussion so far suggests. There are parties using different definitions and different value schemes. I think what an Indian, or Chinese, or German, or American considers "cheating" will vary. An interesting real-life example in the MFE program I was in occurred when some students used past exams to study. These were not distributed by the professor but available through Internet searches. Some consider this cheating, some don't.

In regards to Chinese in particular, they work more collaboratively than Americans. So it's easier for them to transgress into grey areas, e.g. how much is helping a classmate solve an issue with his project versus actually doing a "significant" part of his project? On group projects, Chinese seem to weight contributions of different kinds more equally than Americans. For example, if one person spends a lot of time gathering information while another does most of the analysis, this could be considered to be equal contributions. Americans tend to be more dismissive of certain contributions than others, so in this example I would guess most Americans would consider the analysis to be the "main" part of the project.

 

[C S]

Apple in the late 70s got its mouse, OOP and GUI after a visit of Steve Jobs to Xerox Parc Alto..
I think the female actress is playing Adele Goldberg.

The Mac Lisa was a flop

In the 80s Microsoft gave Apple a financial injection to save it from falling over the cliff.

I think as time goes on, I've become more appreciative of the work at Xerox PARC. Smalltalk has been hugely influential ... this goes beyond impact through the Macintosh.

 

[C S]

Even Chinese goods are second-hand and forged. No surprise in the students forging their applications or exams. Seems a problem with the culture more than anything else.

Seems Chinese culture isn't the only one blamed as encouraging cheating: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wor...heating-parents-scale-walls-article-1.2156737

India gets its share of bad publicity in that area too.

 

[SeanLee]

The culture of pervasive and endemic cheating in China is one aspect. Secondly, for them the expense is something big -- they don't want the investment to come to nothing. Thirdly, language problems factor in. And therefore all types of, er, unethical academic work become inevitable.

As the one who completes education from primary school through college in China, I see nothing about the "culture of pervasive and endemic cheating". Cheating is considered as a HUGE shame in China. There are people cheating in China, like everywhere on the planet. But there is NO cheating culture. At least not in China.

 

[Gavin L]

I would have to politely disagree, just based on the first hand evidence of it in international students from China at my university. There are literally pamphlets in Chinese (which I can read) distributed on notice boards and in classrooms and lecture theatres that 'guarantee distinction+' (B+) for essays at a good price, as well as services to sit in for students in an exam. There IS a culture of cheating, but how students themselves choose to interpret this is up to them.

I will qualify what I am saying by noting that cheating is not a phenomena exclusive to international students - it does happen with local students but much, much less.

 

[Bid Shader]

The culture of pervasive and endemic cheating in China is one aspect. Secondly, for them the expense is something big -- they don't want the investment to come to nothing. Thirdly, language problems factor in. And therefore all types of, er, unethical academic work become inevitable.

Yeah, as others have said, it's probably tough to really know what makes people cheat - I'm skeptical that we can diagnose this by appealing to broad cultural stereotypes, although they can't be dismissed out of hand necessarily in all cases. Chances are culture, language, stress, and idiosyncratic characteristics all play a role, among other other things. I think sometimes the nature of the work expected of students encourages cheating/"collaboration" also - professors substituting a large volume of work in place of "challenging work".

 

[mhy]

Yeah, as others have said, it's probably tough to really know what makes people cheat - I'm skeptical that we can diagnose this by appealing to broad cultural stereotypes, although they can't be dismissed out of hand necessarily in all cases. Chances are culture, language, stress, and idiosyncratic characteristics all play a role, among other other things. I think sometimes the nature of the work expected of students encourages cheating/"collaboration" also - professors substituting a large volume of work in place of "challenging work".

There's a difference between collaboration and cheating, obviously.

People talking about problems and then writing up their own answers = collaboration.

Someone does the HW and everyone else shows up 1 hour before it is due and copies it = cheating

 

[Bid Shader]

There's a difference between collaboration and cheating, obviously.

People talking about problems and then writing up their own answers = collaboration.

Someone does the HW and everyone else shows up 1 hour before it is due and copies it = cheating

Not sure what the point of this comment is. Did you think I was saying that "Someone does the HW and everyone else shows up 1 hour before it is due and copies it" was NOT cheating? I wasn't. We definitely agree on that.