What UK quant program should I apply to?

[Michael Coulon]

Thanks for the thoughts, Philip. These high level strategy decisions are not ones that I make personally, but will certainly keep it in mind for if and when such discussions arise with colleagues and senior management. Post Exp market as you say could definitely be worthwhile to consider in the future, and our strategy will keep evolving I suspect. We'll see. Not easy to predict the trends in demand right now in my view.

As for alumni, what makes Dartmouth's so committed? To me that suggests that they are doing something right in managing the network, whereas Wharton are not putting in as much effort, but I don't know anything about how each manages theirs (I do get to see firsthand some of what Princeton does, and seems to be pretty effective in my opinion).

 

[bigbadwolf]

Imperial Program is like factory. You have a mass of Asian students and the faculty to student ratio seem abysmal. Discount the brand and the educational standard is pathetic no where near top US program.

Speaking in general terms, it's not just Imperial. Many (most?) British universities are selling their brand name and the educational standard is low. What value to assign to the brand is not clear but I am dubious. The British university system is grossly under-resourced.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Speaking in general terms, it's not just Imperial. Many (most?) British universities are selling their brand name and the educational standard is low. What value to assign to the brand is not clear but I am dubious. The British university system is grossly under-resourced.

Is this caused by not enough interaction with industry?

 

[Carol Alexander]

Hi Philip and Daniel,

It may well be that most British universities with a good brand name are providing low quality programmes that are under-resourced with too many students enrolled. But the Sussex's FRIA degree is not like that at all: we have top-quality faculty; small class sizes taking high-standard courses that are designed with careers in mind; individual mentoring by alumni and other industry professionals; and coursework sponsored by industry partners. It is a boutique offering that isn't designed as a cash cow - far from it! We offer it because we enjoy training these students and because it is a reputation builder for the business school at Sussex. Our success in placing students in suitable careers is because most students come from the EU and because the content of the degree, whilst quite quantitative, is geared towards risk management and investment jobs, which are now in greater demand than financial engineers.

 

[bigbadwolf]

Is this caused by not enough interaction with industry?

This could be discussed endlessly. I'm not sure the US neoliberal model of whoring and selling one's soul for private-sector lucre and charging sky-high tuition fees is the way for British universities to go -- but they have been prodded by the British government to go down this path to hell. In the postwar period, British universities were seen as a public good -- the state invested in them and students got free or near-free tuition plus a grant to live on. Faculty was not highly paid but had secure employment and not a heavy workload.

These days the tuition for a home student is around 10,000 pounds a year and for foreign (non-EU) around 16,000. Cash-starved British universities need the money (since government funding has been declining in real terms, maybe in absolute terms as well). So they have to prostitute themselves. If you ever get the chance, watch the '80s film, "Lucky Sunil." What the private crammer, "Queen Victoria College," was doing in the film is what most British universities are doing today.

 

[Carol Alexander]

But this doesn't apply to all universities. Sussex has agreed to offer a mix of cash cows and boutique programmes (like the MSc FRIA).

 

[Philip_Mitterrand]

On a general note, without any post study visa I could hardly imagine attracting the types of IIT/Tsinghua. Why would anyone plumb £20-30K when you have to pick up your tent end of the day. No talented Sunil or Xi Ping is gonna buy it when they have American shores promising them 3 years of Post study Visa. The golden age of British Universities are over and its more like the McDonalds model now.

Carol,

Havn't you thought about offering a program targetting the post exp market than contesting in an overly crowded me too space? As Jack welsh use to say, if you cant be the 1 or no 2 it's time to get out. And the easier way to build brand reputation is to hire the best and coattail on their success like the V2 rocket programs which projected NASA from obscruity on the shoulders of German engineers.

Hi Philip and Daniel,

It may well be that most British universities with a good brand name are providing low quality programmes that are under-resourced with too many students enrolled. But the Sussex's FRIA degree is not like that at all: we have top-quality faculty; small class sizes taking high-standard courses that are designed with careers in mind; individual mentoring by alumni and other industry professionals; and coursework sponsored by industry partners. It is a boutique offering that isn't designed as a cash cow - far from it! We offer it because we enjoy training these students and because it is a reputation builder for the business school at Sussex. Our success in placing students in suitable careers is because most students come from the EU and because the content of the degree, whilst quite quantitative, is geared towards risk management and investment jobs, which are now in greater demand than financial engineers.

 

[Philip_Mitterrand]

Dartmouth have a much smaller class sizes which evokes a collegial feeling unlike Wharton which could be one of the reason and ecosystem evolve over a period of time and it need to be nurtured.

Thanks for the thoughts, Philip. These high level strategy decisions are not ones that I make personally, but will certainly keep it in mind for if and when such discussions arise with colleagues and senior management. Post Exp market as you say could definitely be worthwhile to consider in the future, and our strategy will keep evolving I suspect. We'll see. Not easy to predict the trends in demand right now in my view.

As for alumni, what makes Dartmouth's so committed? To me that suggests that they are doing something right in managing the network, whereas Wharton are not putting in as much effort, but I don't know anything about how each manages theirs (I do get to see firsthand some of what Princeton does, and seems to be pretty effective in my opinion).

 

[Michael Coulon]

Thanks Philip, agreed that small class sizes are key for positive student experience and hence committed alumni. (I was one of 7 in early years of Princeton program, and definitely was a close-knit group!) But of course it's a fine balance to strike, as 7 is not sustainable, and universities are sometimes pushing for very large groups. 20-30 is probably a sensible range.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

One issue is the lack of innovation in general; finance still uses BS, Boyle MC , GBM, Euler, ADI and Crank Nicolson even though the latter methods were discontinued in fluid dynamics and numerical analysis in the early 1970s. Much of the maths is frozen in time.

Not even mentioning computation..

SDEs are still approximated by Euler ... mind-numbing. And 90% of the PDEs are linear..

 

[pingu]

One issue is the lack of innovation in general; finance still uses BS, Boyle MC , GBM, Euler, ADI and Crank Nicolson even though the latter methods were discontinued in fluid dynamics and numerical analysis in the early 1970s. Much of the maths is frozen in time.

Not even mentioning computation..

SDEs are still approximated by Euler ... mind-numbing. And 90% of the PDEs are linear..

will an increase in the complexity justified the use of newer methods? What about new algorithmic differentiation methods?

 

[Daniel Duffy]

will an increase in the complexity justified the use of newer methods? What about new algorithmic differentiation methods?

It's more like models that reflect financial reality better (e.g. UVM).

 

[RedL]

The only programs worth the $/effort is Oxford & Cambridge.

LSE is a rareified diploma mill and have come across folks who had no clue how to even use bloomberg. LBS curriculum is a joke, you go there to get stamped but they do put an effort to get their students placed like American Schools.

I know quite a number of grads from those UK unis I mentioned and seeking employment was the least of their concern. That said, I still think the American programs (Berkeley & Princeton specially) have the "leg up" as the job prospects in the US are bigger and the selection of employers could be wider.