Why are there so many international MFE/MFin students?

[Katrina]

The majority of people in Asia, particularly in densely populated countries such as China, India, the Phillipines, want to work and eventually live permanently in the West. This is due to the fact that these countries are still much less developped and far more competitive in term of jobs and everything else due to the large population and limited resources. In some countries, corruption is a huge problem and there is much less opportunities for people to grow and become sucessful on their own without having to be corrupted themselves. A chance to work and live in the West is therefore extremely appealing to some. Due to severe competition in job market, these students in Asia usually went through an education system that overemphasize on grades and academic achievements instead of a well rounded education like in other developped countries. As a result, students tend to study harder in subjects such as Maths, Sciences, Programming which allow them to have a better chance in passing the extremely difficult university entrance exams. To imagine how competive it is over there, we can look at the China university entrance exam where there are about 10 million candidates each year and only about 8% will be admitted to one of the thousands colleges and universities there. To be in top universities such as Beijing or Tsinghua universities, one must know how to master the skills to gain an absolutely high score in all the exams. The situation is very much similar in India. There is no evidence that these students who did extremely well in Maths and Sciences in the exams will do better than other students later in their life. However, in general, students from Asia have a very high skill in Maths and Programming after many years of preparation for exams which naturally fit in the requirements of MFE programs. The rising of capitalism in China and the rapidly expanding financial market of India also contribute to the "prestigious" of a career in Finance in these societies where many people think will promise them a "glamorous life" in the future. Like Andy mentioned, many MFE programs are fueled by tuition fee from Asian applicants and as they are travelling every year to Beijing and Mumbai to advertise about the programs, more and more students from Asia are attracted to this education.

If you look at the applicants national origin, awhole lot of them come from China and most of them simply return over there. So western lifestyle aint appealing to them

 

[Andy Nguyen]

If you look at the applicants national origin, awhole lot of them come from China and most of them simply return over there. So western lifestyle aint appealing to them

To me, this analysis is not sound.
Given a choice of having a good job in NYC, "most of them simply return over there" is not going to happen. Entry-level jobs in the US pays a lot more than in China and I see absolutely few reasons for someone having a choice of a job in the US will simply return to China.
If you see people returning home involuntary, it's because they can't find a job here and simply give up.
Chinese students are living Western culture a lot more than you believe. Just go to the mall in Shanghai, Beijing and teens there aren't different from here.
While they may originally write in their essay that they would love to do MFE, work few years in US and return home to improve the home country's financial system, after a few short years in the US, that thought isn't as pronounced.
You simply are out of touch with the audience that made up these MFE programs.

 

[jondan]

I have so many classmates from China and all of them trying all the ways to stay back in North America. They spent a fortune to come to western countries to study (the tuition fee for international students are just crazily high) and to them it doesn't make sense to be back home because they will need to work their whole life to get back the amount they spent during their undergrad/grad years. I have not seen a single one that prefer to be back to China given the chance to work and settle in the West, like Andy said, majority just cannot stay due to no job offer, no permanent residency etc so they simply just quietly return

 

[Katrina]

I have so many classmates from China and all of them trying all the ways to stay back in North America. They spent a fortune to come to western countries to study (the tuition fee for international students are just crazily high) and to them it doesn't make sense to be back home because they will need to work their whole life to get back the amount they spent during their undergrad/grad years. I have not seen a single one that prefer to be back to China given the chance to work and settle in the West, like Andy said, majority just cannot stay due to no job offer, no permanent residency etc so they simply just quietly return

So do these MFE returnees from the US find finance related jobs in China ? My question is if they really want to study and stay here and are unable to then the news would have spread like fire in China that it is hard to find work in US and incoming Chinese student numbers would be in decline instead they seem consistent. What is the reason for that, considering that it is lower income country and people would have a hard time paying their loans off once they return to China ?

 

[Cary Ferguson]

@ Cary: This statement is categorically false.

Yeah, I tend to overstate things to make my point. And defining the greatest minds would be quite a task as talent can surface in a variety of ways.

 

[ValueSeeker]

Its actually only becuase of the simple concept of "diversification"
1. Diversification of countries students are going to be able to work (Employment Placement Reports)
2. Diversification of opinion in classroom
3. Diversification exposure to a large group of people who you have not had prior contact

Diversification is the main reason.

 

[Cary Ferguson]

I was just like you, and most people here - I thought all the other majors (management, communications, etc.) are joke - but when you see that a manager who knows not even half of what you know, and makes twice, or 3 times more - it is not a joke anymore.

I'd venture to say that a good portion of capable people in management positions come from very technical backgrounds. I highly doubt there's a lot of CEOs with communications degrees. On another note, I'd assume a good way to move up in banking is to get in the door in the first place which the mfe could help with. But I hear you on most of what you're saying. I guess I thought you assigned no value to CS, Math/Sci or Econ disciplines based on your first post.

 

[helpteye]

In China, if you meet some one at your age and you tell them you are a trader at GS with a master degree in financial engineering and earning $150k, it is damn cool!!!!

It is "damn cool" everywhere in the world; even in the richest countries. For instance the ave. GDP per capita in the USA is somewhere in the mid-high 40K's. If someone is a trader from GS with a masters degree in financial engineering and earning $150K, it is also "damn cool".

 

[helpteye]

Yeah its true but especially in countries where most people solely judge you on the car you drive, the house you live, the money you make, it is something different.

That is almost every country. Including the USA. Why do you think silly rappers talk about their 'ice, cars, rims, women etc'. Consider the fact that just because someone like Jay-Z can rap and makes money doing that, he gets personal meetings with warren buffet; and actually shows up on National Public radio to discuss his "new book" despite the fact that he is just a rapper.

 

[helpteye]

(I have a friend who has a PhD a physics, and turned down many request to go to Wall Street for programming/quant - and actually makes much less at a university.)

Thats weird simply because in order to "turn down many requests to go to Wall Street for programming/quant jobs, 'your friend' would have had to apply and study and interview ferociously for these jobs. Therefore I am not sure about the many "requests". Sort of baffling to me. Point being 'your friend' obviously would have been very interested in going to wall street.

 

[albo]

Thats weird simply because in order to "turn down many requests to go to Wall Street for programming/quant jobs, 'your friend' would have had to apply and study and interview ferociously for these jobs. Therefore I am not sure about the many "requests". Sort of baffling to me. Point being 'your friend' obviously would have been very interested in going to wall street.

That is not always true. I know a Math PhD from Harvard that got a $300k job offer from a big company without ever interviewing with them. He even declined the offer, and told them that he is working towards the Nobel Prize and has no interest in the industry. I believe there is a certain class of people that stand above the whole regular job-interview process. It's their reputation and preparation that makes that possible.

 

[helpteye]

That is not always true. I know a Math PhD from Harvard that got a $300k job offer from a big company without ever interviewing with them. He even declined the offer, and told them that he is working towards the Nobel Prize and has no interest in the industry. I believe there is a certain class of people that stand above the whole regular job-interview process. It's their reputation and preparation that makes that possible.

Sounds to me like you are talking about the movie GoodWill Hunting. In any case, I agree that it is possible, yet highly improbable. Agreed.

 

[albo]

Sounds to me like you are talking about the movie GoodWill Hunting. In any case, I agree that it is possible, yet highly improbable. Agreed.

I'm not talking about the movie. That person I'm talking about is actually one of my computer science professors, he is one of the pioneers in lattice-gauge theories and his results are accepted and used world-wide. I agree with you, it is highly improbable, but not impossible.

 

[TraderJoe]

That is not always true. I know a Math PhD from Harvard that got a $300k job offer from a big company without ever interviewing with them. He even declined the offer, and told them that he is working towards the Nobel Prize and has no interest in the industry. I believe there is a certain class of people that stand above the whole regular job-interview process. It's their reputation and preparation that makes that possible.

I bet this company is Ren Tech.

 

[marina]

Those poor suckers are all wasting their time. Out of those 1200 suckers, they will be very lucky if even ONE of them is able to get admission in IIM-A,B,C. The rest are all wasting their time.

the rest go to US and UK to do their MBA. these guys prepare for GMAT also.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Here is one that asked the same question last year
https://www.quantnet.com/forum/thre...-of-international-students-pursuing-mfe.6270/

 

[Andy Nguyen]

How did this MFE discussion end up in IIM debate?
Please click the Report link under the off-topic, unnecessary posts and I'll take care of them.

 

[neil baruwati]

That is what the point is !!