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Will Quant Positions be flooded ?

Joined
1/30/11
Messages
32
Points
18
I know this has already been discussed at length somewhere but i just wanted to post this question out of curiosity and "fear." Since quantitative finance is...correction...HAS become a very popular field of entry and is at an all time high, i'm simply afraid that the value of an MFE degree might go down due to the large volume of people applying to these programs and ultimately Quant positions.

I personally assume that schools have increased competitiveness in order to stabilize such a market.

What's your opinion ?
 
I think your hypothesis is incomplete. What's the data on quant attrition? How many quants leave their position on a timescale of new ones being minted. Also MFE programs prep students on range of finance topics. Do new 'quant-lets' bleed into other positions in a fund/bank/desk ?

Sorry, but physicists tend to think in 'source-sink' + 'continuity equation' terms ;)
 
I share a similar concern - every year, there seem to be more and more MFE programs, and existing programs seem to be increasing their intake. Moreover, two other factors influence the job market -

1. Quant positions are usually open to many other qualifications - during my three years in the financial industry, I've seen CS/Elec/Math/Physics Phds, CS Masters/Bachelors and even MBAs with a quant background working in quant positions. Many other bright undergrads too.

2. Not sure if it has come up on this forum before - but a LOT of quant positions are getting outsourced to "Global Markets" centers in India. They recruit smart graduates from leading IITs who support front office desks in London, New York and Hong Kong. The work is great, and the pay is good for living in India, yet a fraction of cost to what a similar profile would incur elsewhere. I know of such offices for most of the BB banks - I even worked for one for a few months, supporting a London Risk Management desk, but switched because I wanted to be a quant trader. There is a lot of hiring going on here, of the order a few hundred quants every year for each bank. They're good quant jobs, like I said, just not sure if that's the kind of job/location that an MFE grad would prefer.

These were my concerns when I applied for my Masters - I got into CMU and Chicago last year, but decided to hold off because I like my job - but I'm very keen to study more, so accepting the Columbia MS and E program for this Fall. I'm fairly optimistic about my prospects in quant finance, but given the big investment of time and money, feel more comfortable with a more general degree which might allow me other options in Technology/Management. I think it often boils down to being genuinely interested in what you're studying and giving it your best effort - competition will keep getting intense, but the best candidates will always get good jobs.
 
What Byron said sounds good to me. I am doing the Columbia MSOR also because of its flexibility. The competition is definitely sounding like it is heating up. However, if you remain good, I'm still sure you will get a job; you might have to work harder than before to secure the job.
 
Ruthlessly question yourself on what you are better at than most other people.
Maybe Quant work will pop out of that, maybe not.

An algorithm that iterates through all lines of work asking "is this good" is grotesquely inefficient".

Obviously high end math skills, sharp around PDEs, stats, prob, analysis and linear alg are good.
Most pure maths is not directly useful.

Also you have to like computers.

Test 1: Visualise yourself debugging one program for three months, doing no other activity except eat, sleep and drink coffee.
Could you do this well ? Is this such a ghastly prospect that you'd rather work in Frankfurt ?

Test 2: You find yourself in an episode of House MD, which in this case is a dream sequence when every single person in the hospital is a genius who takes delight in screwing with the minds of everyone else. Banking isn't like that, but also banking often feels like that.
Could you cope, whose mind would you fuck with first ?

Test 3: Fuck.
People will say that to you a lot . You on the other hand will be polite. I know a good % of the must successful banking types in the world, nearly all of them are really polite, so you must be as well. But people have been very rude to them. If you can't cope with that go somewhere else.

Test 4: Do you enjoy solving problems where the rules are neither completely known nor constant, and where the goal itself is partly defined by you ?

Test 5: Do you drink ?
I know not one top banker who doesn't drink. Excess is a terrible thing and has destroyed many people, but zero ethanol is bad for your career.

Test 6: Are you a team player ? Banking involves getting a gang together, you start low in the gang, maybe you join a better gang, maybe you work up through one gang, perhaps someone steals your gang and you have to build a new one.

Test 7: Do you have integrity ?
Would people that know you lend you real money, or look after their kids ?
Bankers get a lot of stick at the best of times, and these aren't even good times, but in your heart are you someone who will bust a gut to fulfil a commitment ?

Test 8: Do you like people like yourself ?
Banks talk a lot of bollocks about "diversity", they even make headhunters like me write bogus "diversity policies" on recruiting staff.
The objective fact is that every type of person is in a bank: gays, blacks, moslems, jews, scientologists, convicted criminals (I have their resumes, yes really), adulterers, loud people, quiet people, women, fat people, vegans, Chinese, smart people, astonishingly stupid people, the French, and Essex men like myself.You may be reporting to a moron, or someone who is so smart that you can't really understand them.

You don't have to like or "respect" these people, I know I don't, but you have to be able to function well with any sort of person who ends up sitting next to you. Every sort. Their obesity, evil political views and support for paedophile priests may be their fault, but they must not be your problem.

What sort of environment do you want to work in, equally importantly what sort would you thrive in ?
Forget the money, you can't succeed in banking if your misery impacts your productivity.
 
@DominiConnor,

Always love reading your posts, as they contain insights that are hard to find anywhere else. Especially like Test 3!
 
I know this has already been discussed at length somewhere but i just wanted to post this question out of curiosity and "fear." Since quantitative finance is...correction...HAS become a very popular field of entry and is at an all time high, i'm simply afraid that the value of an MFE degree might go down due to the large volume of people applying to these programs and ultimately Quant positions.
Nobody is arguing that the number of application to MFE program is at all time high this year. I didn't know there was a degree called MFE in 2005 and now, we have high school students asking questions about MFE programs.

This is to say the number of people aware and interested in of this line of work will increase in the future. So are the number of programs springing up to serve or take money from these applicants.

When you say "quant positions", do you have any clear definition of what they are? Just because they have a "quant" in their title means very little.
I personally assume that schools have increased competitiveness in order to stabilize such a market.
What's your opinion ?
What do you mean exactly?
Top programs will always work very hard to improve their quality, the quality of incoming students, the opportunities and quality of jobs available to their studenst?
What other programs would do? nothing I'm afraid. They haven't bothered to do so the past few years, why do it now when they can have more people willing to pay to study in their program? The incentive is not there.
 
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