Best Programming languages

[Daniel Duffy]

Even if you limit C++ to the python subset, it will not be as good as python for the tasks people use python for.
What are these tasks?

The whole point of python is rapid development. In C++ it takes you a day to write and debug a small class. In python you can do it in 10 minutes.

I do not necesarily say I was going to use C++ classes. I can encapsulate C functions and data in a namespace.

God help you when you try and port your C++ code to a different machine/compiler too.

If you use standard C++ it's OK.

You are missing the point.

Flattery will get you nowhere :D

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Matlab is going to die a horrible death at the hands of Python..

I also use a crystal ball :D

 

[Barny]

I also use a crystal ball :D

Python does everything matlab does, often better in many cases, and is general purpose, and has nicer syntax, and is more powerful in terms of performance and features and is free. Matlab's days are numbered.

 

[SDass]

I originally asked this question because I have little programming experience besides VBA. Thanks for all your post, banter as well.

It seems to me that Python is very clean and just very intuitive. If you have never programmed before and you want to do an operation it is exactly what you would expect. I found a little sheet comparing PERL PYTHON RUBY. http://hyperpolyglot.org/scripting. Python is just very intuitive.

I will probably start learning Python refresh matlab and R and then circle back to C,C++. Thank you for all your input. I learned a lot really quickly from the Duffy Barny Brawl.

On another note since Python is used industry wide why do no MFE programs teach it?

 

[alain]

On another note since Python is used industry wide why do no MFE programs teach it?

I know Baruch teaches Python besides C++.

Here is the thing, usually when you going to an interview for a so called "quant" position, people will tend to ask you C++ questions regardless if you are going to use it or not. Historically this has been the case. Maybe things are changing now but I'm not 100% sure.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

I originally asked this question because I have little programming experience besides VBA. Thanks for all your post, banter as well.

It seems to me that Python is very clean and just very intuitive. If you have never programmed before and you want to do an operation it is exactly what you would expect. I found a little sheet comparing PERL PYTHON RUBY. http://hyperpolyglot.org/scripting. Python is just very intuitive.

I will probably start learning Python refresh matlab and R and then circle back to C,C++. Thank you for all your input. I learned a lot really quickly from the Duffy Barny Brawl.

On another note since Python is used industry wide why do no MFE programs teach it?

Python seems to stand the test!

Why not a lot of MFE Python? Probably because it all takes time.

Python <-> C++

http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_53_0/libs/python/doc/index.html

 

[bigbadwolf]

On another note since Python is used industry wide why do no MFE programs teach it?

Inertia. Intellectual slothfulness.

 

[daleholborow]

Out of interest, the last time i looked at python was years and years ago (it was being taught to a friend of mine in a comp sci class and he asked me to help debug some code or something). The idea of using whitespace as important in the compilation seemed nasty then... i dont know if that is still something i'd feel *as* strongly about now, but i think it raises an interesting question... what IDE do you use for Python? I'm mostly a c#/vba clown now, and a massive part of that is my familiarity with Visual Studio ... is there a decent IDE that is synonymous with Python programming, the way that VS is ubiquitous with C#?

 

[Barny]

I know Baruch teaches Python besides C++.

Here is the thing, usually when you going to an interview for a so called "quant" position, people will tend to ask you C++ questions regardless if you are going to use it or not. Historically this has been the case. Maybe things are changing now but I'm not 100% sure.

It's changing for sure. One of my friends works for a big hedge fund and all the questions they asked him at interview were language agnostic (algorithms, data structures) and he chose to answer them in python and got the job. They also have people working with Haskell etc.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Out of interest, the last time i looked at python was years and years ago (it was being taught to a friend of mine in a comp sci class and he asked me to help debug some code or something). The idea of using whitespace as important in the compilation seemed nasty then... i dont know if that is still something i'd feel *as* strongly about now, but i think it raises an interesting question... what IDE do you use for Python? I'm mostly a c#/vba clown now, and a massive part of that is my familiarity with Visual Studio ... is there a decent IDE that is synonymous with Python programming, the way that VS is ubiquitous with C#?

What about this IDE?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SharpDevelop

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Inertia. Intellectual slothfulness.

Ideally, computing should be learned at school (from 9 years).

 

[Barny]

Ideally, computing should be learned at school (from 9 years).

Why ideally? What evidence do you have?

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Why ideally? What evidence do you have?

You don't want to have computer illiterates, do you now? Do you have a reason to believe that it is not optimal?

I know lots of people who started when they were 9. And they are the best programmers. They did not wait for the professor to teach them.

 

[Barny]

You don't want to have computer illiterates, do you now? Do you have a reason to believe that it is not optimal?

I know lots of people who started when they were 9. And they are the best programmers. They did not wait for the professor to teach them.

1) Being computer literate does not mean you need to start programming aged 9.
2) Small sample size.
3) Not waiting for a professor to teach you is a great skill to have, and is independent of the subject of learning. It is a character trait.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

1) Being computer literate does not mean you need to start programming aged 9.
2) Small sample size.
3) Not waiting for a professor to teach you is a great skill to have, and is independent of the subject of learning. It is a character trait.

1) I am talking about kids doing creative things asap. It's like having the ability to speak English.
2) Sample size is ~ 5000 developers This is more than enough to form an impression.

 

[alain]

what IDE do you use for Python? I'm mostly a c#/vba clown now, and a massive part of that is my familiarity with Visual Studio ...

vim, emacs, eclipse + pydev, spyder.. however, since you are so familiar with VS, you are in luck. Check this out

http://pytools.codeplex.com/

 

[Barny]

1) I am talking about kids doing creative things asap. It's like having the ability to speak English.
2) Sample size is ~ 5000 developers This is more than enough to form an impression.

I don't believe you know 5000 people who started coding aged 9. Knowing 5000 developers by itself is not enough, of course, but a man versed in statistics such as yourself should know that, right?

The guys I know who started playing with computers aged 9 (in a techy way, not a computer games way) are barely functioning human beings. They can't have a conversation, can't cook themselves a decent meal, don't know how to do their laundry, don't have girlfriends, smell and look bad.

Doing creative things is great, but there is a time and a place, and you can develop creativity in others ways before learning how to code.

 

[Barny]

Avoid IDE's like the proverbial plague. Get yourself a linux distro and emacs/vim. IPython all you need after that.

 

[daleholborow]

Barny, I've been with you for a fair bit of this thread, but (more for the attention of anyone just starting to learn to code), advice to avoid an IDE is madness
I look back on the days of UltraEdit and so on, and can happily sing good riddance. I <3 the intellisense! hahahahah

 

[alain]

Barny, I've been with you for a fair bit of this thread, but (more for the attention of anyone just starting to learn to code), advice to avoid an IDE is madness
I look back on the days of UltraEdit and so on, and can happily sing good riddance. I <3 the intellisense! hahahahah

you can convert vim (and probably emacs but... everybody knows vim is the best ) into a powerful IDE with what you call intellisense and more bells and whistles.