C++ online certificate for MFE applicants

[Andy Nguyen]

Dear all,

I think my following questions have been already answered but I can't find them
1. Where and How will we do the final exam? I'm not in the US...
2. What if I get less than 70% in the final exam (considering that one of my goals is the Baruch Certification)? Will I have some tries?
Thanks

1) I have added answer in the FAQ
2) 70% is the accumulative average including the final exam. Your TA will give the grades of all the assignments up to the final so you will have good idea of how well you have done so far.

 

[JLMARTIN]

thanks Andy!

 

[Barny]

You gonna drop ~1,500 bucks on an education you coulda got for a dollar fifty in late charges at the public library? Madness. The ultimate MFE cash-cow has arrived. Now you don't even need to attend the university in person.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Actually, Barny has a point. What he meant is that people can learn programming from picking up the books from the library for free (or for $1.50 late charge if kept longer).
It is true for any subject, be it math, finance or programming. MIT Open courses are popular for a reason.

That said, I'm sure our members are very savvy and they are not going to pay a cent if they can get the same value for free elsewhere. They know they are not going to convince MFE programs that they know C++ very well because they have taken out "Learning C++ in 24 hours" from the library or watched some tutorials on Youtube.

When it comes to providing proof that you took the course from an accredited institution, reading books, watching Youtube, and certifying yourself are not going to work as far as applying to graduate programs is concerned.

What we provide is an one-on-one assistant with a curriculum tailored to MFE types that when completed, will result in a certificate from an accredited educational institution (and a well-know MFE program). Getting there is not simply as paying the tuition. You have to hit all the milestones, do the work in a timely and satisfactory manner and do well enough to get that certificate.

You could always learn C++ programming yourself from a book. There is nobody there to help when you have questions. Different goals and approach for different people and needs. There is no wrong/right here.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

You could always learn C++ programming yourself from a book.

Could do. But it is not optimal in my experience. Syntax is one thing. Becoming a good programmer is another story.

You can learn/find everything that is in our course, but it will take 2-3 full time (at least) in my experience.

 

[akhan]

Whats the name of the textbook that we are going to be using for this course

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Whats the name of the textbook that we are going to be using for this course

In principle, you don't need a textbook to learn what you have to learn. The audio/video/quiz/code answers/demos 'drive' the course.
The course is kind of self-contained.

Of course, books are recommended. In a sense, you don't want to be inundated with too much information that might deflect from course goals.

 

[Kenny L]

Is there supposed to be a confirmation page or e-mail notification after I click "submit" at the pre-registration page?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Is there supposed to be a confirmation page or e-mail notification after I click "submit" at the pre-registration page?

I can confirm that you submitted successfully.
People will get redirected back to the forum once they submitted. I added an email confirmation to the process but I believe everyone signed up with no problem.

 

[Kenny L]

Thanks Andy!

 

[Barny]

Actually, Barny has a point. What he meant is that people can learn programming from picking up the books from the library for free (or for $1.50 late charge if kept longer).
It is true for any subject, be it math, finance or programming. MIT Open courses are popular for a reason.

That said, I'm sure our members are very savvy and they are not going to pay a cent if they can get the same value for free elsewhere. They know they are not going to convince MFE programs that they know C++ very well because they have taken out "Learning C++ in 24 hours" from the library or watched some tutorials on Youtube.

When it comes to providing proof that you took the course from an accredited institution, reading books, watching Youtube, and certifying yourself are not going to work as far as applying to graduate programs is concerned.

What we provide is an one-on-one assistant with a curriculum tailored to MFE types that when completed, will result in a certificate from an accredited educational institution (and a well-know MFE program). Getting there is not simply as paying the tuition. You have to hit all the milestones, do the work in a timely and satisfactory manner and do well enough to get that certificate.

You could always learn C++ programming yourself from a book. There is nobody there to help when you have questions. Different goals and approach for different people and needs. There is no wrong/right here.

Well, I don't really see what you've said is a refutation of my point. First of all, I'll assume people taking this course will already have a degree. In your degree, you must have had to do some sort of project, and for those looking to do quant work I imagine would have been theoretical or involved some coding. Therefore, you have the perfect opportunity to practice your C++. I did my project in Matlab, but I found a good exercise was to re-write it using C++. After that, you should be able to field off most interview questions for MFE programmes. Once you have a base, it's easy to add extra concepts and features such as OO. Also if you have questions, there are literally countless forums where you can ask technical questions, and really there is so much documentation on programming that you should be able to find something to answer your question just with a google search.

I don't see Duffy's point either. Because teaching someone to be a good programmer (commenting correctly, structuring their code properly, making sure your code is clean and readable, writing error exceptions and a calling tree etc.) is something that no semester long course could teach you, and is something you learn from writing programs yourself and then coming back x months later to debug them and experiencing the hell that involves.

Either way, I am not denying the course will be good, or useful. I'm sure it will both. There is just no way in hell I'm going to pay for it, though I understand that American's have a different view wrt. paying for education than we Brits. Especially because programming is something that you only get good at by hard-wiring it into your brain, by doing it over and over again. It's a bit like achieving excellence in basketball, or chess.

 

[bigbadwolf]

Especially because programming is something that you only get good at by hard-wiring it into your brain, by doing it over and over again. It's a bit like achieving excellence in basketball, or chess.

Some good points you make. Particularly that good coding can't be "taught" in a semester or two. Chess can't be "taught" either, in a semester or two -- just how the pieces move, plus some elementary mating patterns and tactics, some openings, some endgames. But a good teacher can -- over a space of time -- take you where books alone can't. I must have over a thousand chess books (in spite of having given away or sold several hundred); yet I'm never going to make master unassisted. Give me a couple of years, however, with a seasoned chess teacher like Mark Dvoretsky and I will crash through the 2200 barrier. The problem, of course, is that good teachers are fiendishly difficult to find.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

I don't see Duffy's point either. Because teaching someone to be a good programmer (commenting correctly, structuring their code properly, making sure your code is clean and readable, writing error exceptions and a calling tree etc.) is something that no semester long course could teach you, and is something you learn from writing programs yourself and then coming back x months later to debug them and experiencing the hell that involves.

Actually, good programmets do these naturally without thinking about these issues, just like a good judoka can combine techniques by instinct.

 

[Barny]

Actually, good programmets do these naturally without thinking about these issues, just like a good judoka can combine techniques by instinct.

Yes, well you just proved my point. It comes with experience and practice, not via a course.

 

[ItaUK]

Well, I don't really see what you've said is a refutation of my point.

Either way, I am not denying the course will be good, or useful. I'm sure it will both. There is just no way in hell I'm going to pay for it.

Well, Barny, I'm not a MFE applicant and have several years experience (as an applied researcher in engineering) with basic programming routines in Matlab, FORTRAN, C++. It's a couple of years I'm into OOP and STL C++ and have a good collection of fundamental books, which I'm studying at my pace and applied to my sector.

What you actually buy from this QuantNet/Baruch course is the certification that you had a *reputed, tracked and examined learning process* in the main C++ techniques. This helps recruiters skip the C++ thing in your CV (which is usually tricky) against a multitude of opponents. It's a 80/20 thing: you get a well known patch saying you are confident with the 80% of the language and implement most of what you practically need in the 20% of time. Not a bad deal for $1450.

In every case I agree we can download the syllabus here, find some good books and do the course ourselves.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Yes, well you just proved my point. It comes with experience and practice, not via a course.

Well, it's both, at least what people tell me.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

First of all, I'll assume people taking this course will already have a degree. In your degree, you must have had to do some sort of project, and for those looking to do quant work I imagine would have been theoretical or involved some coding. Therefore, you have the perfect opportunity to practice your C++.

I can comment on this as someone who have reviewed close to 2,000 applications for a US-based MathFin program. I don't know if your own experience with C++ is indicative of applicants to UK MFE programs but from my experience, the number of applicants who are exposed to the right amount of C++ is far and few.

We have a huge number of applicants from China/India, most of them have done zero or little programming. Those that listed programming in their transcript, was taught C, SAS, Java, EViews. Even those with a CS/Engineering degree don't necessarily get exposed to C++. While C++ is the universal language in quant finance, very few students got exposed to it at the undergrad level. It's the case in Asia and even in the US.

The number of math courses these applicants took outnumbered the programming course they have. When it comes down to the programming admission requirement, having one C++ course in the transcript is make-or-break for many of these applicants.

And when these applicants come looking for a local university to learn C++, there is none available. There are few online offerings. The ones available are either too expensive or teach the generic kind of C++. This is the audience that we are helping, not someone who has a few years to self learn C++ and practice till perfection.

As I ask our members before, the crucial question is "what do you plan to do with this training/certificate". If you take it and never use it again, then may as well learning it from a book. For most of the people taking this, they will go on and start their MFE program with a newly learnt skill and a working code base that give them an edge in their study. And for people like ItaUK, he can take the skills and work on finance projects and have something tangible to show to his future employers.

Our course takes people with zero programming experience so it certainly won't make them world-class C++ programmers in a few months. What it does is giving them the competitive advantages they need to compete with thousands other MFE applicants and job seekers.

It all comes down to the question of given a limited amount of time, how you maximize your chance, either to get admission into a top MFE program, or to gain a foothold in the industry.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Indeed, most universities do not teach C++ and we assume no programming experience; that's why we start at the very beginning.

Even having knowledge of other languages (Matlab, SAS, etc.) will prepare you somewhat but they protect you from the machine. With C++, it is like shifting into another gear. Eventually, the power of C++ will allow you to design and implement efficient code for larger systems.

 

[Faisal]

Faisal
It would help to leave a note when you sign up about when/where you plan to apply (admission deadlines and such). I will try to accommodate your need in a timely manner wherever possible.

I do not quite understand what you mean by signing up. Is it some step I am not aware of , post pre-registration step ? Regarding the deadlines, I am ruminating about applying for CMU's first deadline (7th November). I wonder if you could clarify if the first deadline is less competitive and has higher admit rates. Further, would it help if I am going through the course and mentioned the same in my applications or is it highly imperative that I complete the C++ course before applying? As for other programs, Columbia has its deadline on 1st December while Baruch too starts evaluations on 1st December. Hence I think I should be starting the course pretty soon.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Faisal,
Thanks for the info. That's what I need to know.

The response to the course has been nothing short of overwhelming. We haven't even sent out any announcement via our newsletter yet. So thanks everyone for your interest and support.

For those looking to apply for the Fall 2012 and have already pre-registered, it's certain that many of you will not be admitted into the first group. But please keep in mind that for admission purpose at most programs, you only need to demonstrate that you will fulfill the programming requirement by the time you enroll into an MFE program. Many programs will admit you on the condition that you take the C++ course by the time you enroll.

That means you still have time to take and finish it by Fall 2012. If you are not done with the course by the time you submit your applications, you can always mention that you are either enrolled in the course or expected to be enrolled in the course soon. It all depends on when you apply to a specific program.