double major?

[Sangwon Hyun]

Double in financial math and computer science

is what i'm aiming for but its gonna take me at least 5 years

Does anyone think that I should just minor in CS and move onto grad school as soon as i can
or spend some more time in undergrad to get a degree in CS?
The reason I am asking this is because i heard that minor degrees achieved in undergrad are really insignificant and largely ignored by employers. Also, I have read from some posts that C++ is more than half of what quants do, but I see people talking about "taking some C++ courses" on the way. In short, I am trying to decide whether I want to stay in undergrad an extra year or two for a major in computer science(My family is not rich and I'm an international student, so..).

I go to the University of Michigan Ann Arbor by the way

 

[Andy Nguyen]

In this quant space, employers and recruiters place more weight on the relevant skills than the title of your degree. I've seen liberal art majors who have more impressive C++ skills than computer science majors.
You want to take all the good courses under the least amount of time and money to get a degree. This is a function that you need to calibrate with plenty of parameters (school policy, money,time,etc) involved.
When I did my undergrad, there was a flat tuition fee structure that I exploited to my advantage. I took so much courses that in 4 years, I graduated with a Math degree and the school agreed to give me a CS degree.
That free ride is long gone and Michigan is different so you need to be very careful with how you spend your time and money, being international student.

If I were you, I would try to maximize my time and effort to hit the job market as soon as possible. There is a point when staying an extra year in school versus being out of 100K in potential income is no longer justified.

 

[fredcheck]

does michigan offer a financial math major?
its a shame lots of schools dont offer BS in finance math. only one ive seen is CMU

 

[alain]

does michigan offer a financial math major?
its a shame lots of schools dont offer BS in finance math. only one ive seen is CMU

why is it a shame?

 

[fredcheck]

because students that want to eventually go into the field cant get a good grasp on both the topics, both math and finance
sounds like a good start for anyone thats interested and most schools dont have that option (besides actuarial)

 

[John]

because students that want to eventually go into the field cant get a good grasp on both the topics, both math and finance
sounds like a good start for anyone thats interested and most schools dont have that option (besides actuarial)

Baruch does have a math of finance concentration: Mathematics - Undergraduate Bulletin - Academic Programs - Baruch College

 

[Andy Nguyen]

There are few other undergrad financial math programs as well
Asbury Asbury College: Wilmore KY » Majors
Ball State Financial Mathematics Program at Ball State University

 

[Sangwon Hyun]

Financial math

what should I start to prepare for as a freshman in order to get my first job in banks?
Is there any test or skill specifically that I should be practicing?
some person i know told me that CFA is a good place to start, and maybe a few actuarial exams might help too.(again, excuse my ignorance if I am way off track - I am only a freshman!)
I have started to read the economist..

oh and yes UMich has a wonderful financial/actuarial math program. It is very popular here.

 

[alain]

what should I start to prepare for as a freshman in order to get my first job in banks?
Is there any test or skill specifically that I should be practicing?
some person i know told me that CFA is a good place to start, and maybe a few actuarial exams might help too.(again, excuse my ignorance if I am way off track - I am only a freshman!)
I have started to read the economist..

oh and yes UMich has a wonderful financial/actuarial math program. It is very popular here.

where is the program popular?

 

[Yuriy]

I would be very careful about BS programs in Financial Math. BS is where your basic skills get built. If you concentrate in math and finance at the same time early in your career you might not be able to get solid understanding of math. So you need to make sure you take all math classes required for a standard math BS. And I would not call it a shame if schools don't offer BS in financial math, it is rather unusual when schools do offer it and it is good of course.

 

[finmathguytr]

i would be glad if you evaluate the curriculum below.
http://www.bilgi.edu.tr/pages/faculties.asp?fid=3&did=20&curri=true&mfid=2&mdid=92

programming for financial mathematics includes a discrete mathematics, a programming and an academic english course, those are united into one course.

do you think it would be enough for a standing math understanding? if not, what courses would you recommend. it would really help me much if someone comments on this.

btw, universities' math staff are very qualified and the math department has the most rigorous and advanced program in turkey. i would say it is the top program in here. so i think it is a great chance to take some courses that help to build a solid math ground when some additional courses are choosed. any suggestions will be appreciated.

 

[Francis]

wouldn't a fin math undergrad major be lacking compared to a MS in fin math which would have extensive math, computing and statistics. how could a undergrad program fit all those in 4 years along with a gen ed? I would assume that a undergrad fin math is not equivalent to a MS in fin math, so wouldn't a undergrad fin math major like the OP lack knowledge in certain areas to get a job as a Quant?

 

[bigbadwolf]

wouldn't a fin math undergrad major be lacking compared to a MS in fin math which would have extensive math, computing and statistics. how could a undergrad program fit all those in 4 years along with a gen ed? I would assume that a undergrad fin math is not equivalent to a MS in fin math, so wouldn't a undergrad fin math major like the OP lack knowledge in certain areas to get a job as a Quant?

Not necessarily. The problem with American education is that it just keeps students doing one irrelevant course after another year after senseless year. General education is so much garbage: students should have learnt how to write essays in high school and not have to take some stupid course in composition in college. Likewise for other fluff and filler courses such as history. American undergrad education (and often grad education) is one sick joke. A well-designed undergrad program could have students complete all the calc, linear algebra, probability, stats and basic programming courses they need by the end of the second year. The two subsequent years could be spent on a comprehensive quant education. They could come out even knowing more than a lot of people from some of the newer trash-tier MFE programs.

 

[finmathguytr]

I think a comparison between high school math educations is necessary for such a statement. In turkey, we are already doing a lot of calculus, geometry, etc. staff in the level of high school. SAT's math questions are also known in here and mostly considered and told as jokes in conversations. I think i could do almost every sat math question when I was starting high school. So I wouldn't easily say that level of math knowledge in a finmath bs program would not be enough. I think one can learn a lot more math in four years if he is already familiar with them before undergraduate.

 

[Sangwon Hyun]

I would say that the financial mathematics curriculum is not very different from a math BS - just some more requirements in economics and finance. UofM offers either an actuarial or financial mathematics degree. Either way, I do not think that a financial math curriculum would be inadequate in acquiring mathematic knowledge. For instance, our actuarial program, opposed to other colleges, does not directly prepare students for the exams - the curriculums are purely academic(for the lack of a better term). But the original question was how much C++ should I do in undergrad. Any opinions? does MFE teach enough C++?

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Not necessarily. The problem with American education is that it just keeps students doing one irrelevant course after another year after senseless year. General education is so much garbage: students should have learnt how to write essays in high school and not have to take some stupid course in composition in college. Likewise for other fluff and filler courses such as history. American undergrad education (and often grad education) is one sick joke. A well-designed undergrad program could have students complete all the calc, linear algebra, probability, stats and basic programming courses they need by the end of the second year. The two subsequent years could be spent on a comprehensive quant education. They could come out even knowing more than a lot of people from some of the newer trash-tier MFE programs.

Quoted for truth. Thank goodness that economics are counted as a social science and I could use high school history for my one humanities course but I STILL will not be able to get over how POORLY C++ was taught to me, and on top of that, a garbage mech engineering class, and an electrical engineering class.

That said, in terms of my education, I exhausted all undergraduate (and one graduate) probability courses at my college, and I'm going to have all of the relevant finance and economics as well (Game Theory coming up...YAHOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!). Now as for C++, there is a course that literally weeds out aspiring CS majors, which I will absolutely get destroyed in, but I am hoping that my info systems design professor has us write a killer financial app in python next semester--though I'm not sure what I'm going to do about C++ other than try to learn it online just to show I'm willing to put in the effort.

Programming has always been a very uphill battle for me, since I tend to think in terms of the numbers, not as the numbers are simply an instance of the over-arching concepts. That said, I have to say I'm infinitely better at programming now than I was a few years ago when I hadn't learned anything.

Though on another point...frankly, I believe that high school should let students take a computer programming language for a few years instead of a required foreign language if they so wish.

I'm just wondering where this puts me compared to Columbia University financial engineering majors that learn all of their optimization and monte carlo in Matlab, whereas I use AMPL (A Mathematical Programming Language) (www.ampl.com) and learned Arena from Rockwell Software (ugh ugh ugh terrible program)

 

[doug reich]

I'm just wondering where this puts me compared to Columbia University financial engineering majors that learn all of their optimization and monte carlo in Matlab, whereas I use AMPL (A Mathematical Programming Language) (www.ampl.com) and learned Arena from Rockwell Software (ugh ugh ugh terrible program)

They know Simplex better than you do?