God, hardest choice! NYU MathFin VS Harvard CSE

[Zelong Qiu]

Look, if your goal is to work in HFT or AlgoTrading as you have stated, then there is no doubt that the Harvard CSE program would be the best choice. But you need to understand that you will be competing with Computer Science PhD who would have far superior knowledge (not necessarily intelligence) and technical skills. You would be relying on the Harvard brand name and your own abilities to compete with these Computer Science PhDs.
If you want to work in Quant Finance, then NYU Courant program would be the best choice.

Thank you very much for the comprehensive reply. I got your point but I still confused that why people, not only you, refer "Quant Finance" different from Algo Trading. If the word "Quant Fin" doesn't include Algo Trading, what career or position does it refer to? like risk management/model validation/portfolio optimization?

I heard that NYU is good at placing its graduate on buy-side. What is the advantage of buy-side over sell-side, exactly? I'm confused cuz looks like both sides offer the same position title and career path.

 

[TraderJoe]

I don't know dude. It seems that some people are trolling this forum. Specially since you decided to apply to such different progams and you could easily find out where the students are getting placed and there are so many quant guides available which provide the answers to the questions which you are asking.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Hi Daniel,
Would you mind to comment on the curriculum of the Harvard program and if it is possible to lead me to also trading position?

It looks OK on paper but I think a deeper analysis might be useful.

A general remark is that most of useful learning is 'on the job'.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

A general remark is that learning _fundamental_ mathematics, C++, algorithms, whatever is more enduring than a course that teaches you ' applying fundamental stuff'.

 

[RyanSH]

Side note: don't do a master if you want to do a PhD later.

Pingu, thanks for your suggestion. I am just not sure whether to do PhD or go to industry.

 

[TehRaio]

Pingu, thanks for your suggestion. I am just not sure whether to do PhD or go to industry.

Only do a PhD if you want the opportunity to do research and/or teach later on.
that's actually my plan, so I'm thinking about working for a few years in the industry, and go back to school for a PhD.
Most people can't work as a quant with a bachelor's degree so it's actually necessary to get a Msc degree in that particular situation.

 

[Mathchismo]

A general remark is that learning _fundamental_ mathematics, C++, algorithms, whatever is more enduring than a course that teaches you ' applying fundamental stuff'.

Do you have any thoughts on this? I am looking at this program - I saw your comment on Machine learning for finance. It is a bit contrary to what QuantStart says.

Won't this open the door to other firms though (Google, Microsoft etc) as well as other roles (Bloomberg Data scientist, FinTech start-ups etc). Some of the heads of asset management firms come from machine learning or computational statistics backgrounds.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Do you have any thoughts on this? I am looking at this program - I saw your comment on Machine learning for finance. It is a bit contrary to what QuantStart says.

Won't this open the door to other firms though (Google, Microsoft etc) as well as other roles (Bloomberg Data scientist, FinTech start-ups etc). Some of the heads of asset management firms come from machine learning or computational statistics backgrounds.

What is / who is QuantStart?
I am not working in ML but I do understand the underlying maths. Some excellent heads have degrees in history but that does mean staff as well.

Personally, I am somewhat skeptical of the mathematical foundations. It looks very CS oriented. Some say ML/AI is just an application of mathematics.

As I said, I am responding based on very incomplete info.

A sobering article
Opinion | Artificial Intelligence Is Stuck. Here’s How to Move It Forward.

 

[Mathchismo]

I am not working in ML but I do understand the underlying maths. Some heads have degrees in history but that does mean staff as well.

Personally, I am somewhat skeptical of the mathematical foundations. It looks very CS oriented. Some say ML/AI is just an application of mathematics.

As I said, I am responding based on very incomplete info.

A sobering article
Opinion | Artificial Intelligence Is Stuck. Here’s How to Move It Forward.

Okay thank you very much for taking the time to respond. I personally am finishing up my masters in applied math and am looking at courses for my 2nd masters.

If you have a subscription to the WSJ this is also worth looking at "Robotic Hogwash! Artificial Intelligence Will Not Take Over Wall Street": Robotic Hogwash! Artificial Intelligence Will Not Take Over Wall Street

With a background in Mathematics already, I will still consider this course for my 2nd masters. I think it will open up a lot of doors especially if I do a thesis focused on computational economics/algorithmic trading/portfolio strategies (which past students have done). I do not know whether I want to be in finance my whole life, especially if I can start a business or switch and work at Google. This course may open up more doors but I could be wrong.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

I suppose if you put ML/AI on your resume/CV you gotta be darned sure that you know something about this topic!!

 

[pingu]

Okay thank you very much for taking the time to respond. I personally am finishing up my masters in applied math and am looking at courses for my 2nd masters.

You sound like a professional student. What's your 3rd Masters subject?

Be really careful on spending too much time in school.

 

[Philip_Mitterrand]

Harvard has some of THE best mathematicians and if you can substitute some dull CSE electives for Math courses that will take the edge of the NYU Quant program. Your ability to cope with that is a whole diff issue. Harvard adds social value, hidden benefits with the fairer sex and occasionally helping you usurp a spot from someone more rightful by leveraging the brand.

Hi all,

I got admitted to the Mathematics in Finance program at NYU and the computational science and engineering program at Harvard. Both are master program. It is really a tough decision to make and I would like to hear some suggestions from brilliant practitioners and alumnus like you guys. Any information or thoughts are highly appreciated. Below is the pros and cons from my personal point of view.

Harvard:
Pros:
1. Harvard is Harvard is Harvard
2. CSE is designed as a data science program which is hot recently
3. 3 core courses with very flexible electives; students can take courses at MIT Sloan which compensate the lack of finance courses
4. core course focus on computational science, i.e programming; more broad career choices after graduation; I'm not sure if quant finance will continue hot for next few decades plus programmers get increasingly higher pay at tech companies
5. 100% placement of graduates

Cons:
1. engineering is not Harvard's best
2. few graduates went to quant fin industry, most went to software industry
3. unclear about career service and few info only; so I assume the career service is not strong
4.the damn weather at Boston....ridiculously cold

NYU:
Pros:
1. NYU's msmf is one of the best in the quant fin/fin engr programs
2. Well rounded curriculum with top faculty
3. location, close to well street
4. almost 100% placement of graduates into quant fin industry

Cons:
1. the brand name is not as famous as Harvard
2. the career choices after graduation may be narrow, i.e. quant fin only

Actually, I think both are top choice. The only difference is depend on what I want to be after graduation, quant fin or data science. I'm wandering how the compensations of these two career compare? It seems to me that the average entry level salary is about 10k per year on well street. not sure about software side. Any ideas?

Thank you all

 

[Daniel Duffy]

Harvard has some of THE best mathematicians and if you can substitute some dull CSE electives for Math courses that will take the edge of the NYU Quant program. Your ability to cope with that is a whole diff issue. Harvard adds social value, hidden benefits with the fairer sex and occasionally helping you usurp a spot from someone more rightful by leveraging the brand.

win-win?

 

[Ken Abbott]

Harvard has some of THE best mathematicians and if you can substitute some dull CSE electives for Math courses that will take the edge of the NYU Quant program. Your ability to cope with that is a whole diff issue. Harvard adds social value, hidden benefits with the fairer sex and occasionally helping you usurp a spot from someone more rightful by leveraging the brand.

1. Good mathematicians do not necessarily make good teachers.
2. Programs generally limit how many courses you can take outside of the department (I have degrees from both and teach at one of these.)
3. I don't agree about the social value and I won't even say anything about the "usurping comment.
4. Brand does count, but in finance, I'd give the edge to NYU.

 

[IntoDarkness]

1. Good mathematicians do not necessarily make good teachers.
2. Programs generally limit how many courses you can take outside of the department (I have degrees from both and teach at one of these.)
3. I don't agree about the social value and I won't even say anything about the "usurping comment.
4. Brand does count, but in finance, I'd give the edge to NYU.

cuz you are a alum? not fair!

 

[Daniel Duffy]

cuz you are a alum? not fair!

My take is: Ken knows what he is talking about.

 

[Mathchismo]

1. Good mathematicians do not necessarily make good teachers.
2. Programs generally limit how many courses you can take outside of the department (I have degrees from both and teach at one of these.)
3. I don't agree about the social value and I won't even say anything about the "usurping comment.
4. Brand does count, but in finance, I'd give the edge to NYU.

Those are some excellent points. Thank you very much for the response. Do US banks really rate NYU that highly for finance?

Final questions directed at Ken - what are your thoughts on the Stanford Mathematical and Computational Finance program. The old Financial Mathematics program was on the QuantNet rankings but the new program is not listed. No one has even mentioned this on the Forum:

Institute for Computational and Mathematical Engineering | Stanford University

 

[Daniel Duffy]

CME 303 and CME 306 look standard but a wee bit too vanilla IMHO.

In fact, I don't see any _explicit_ references to numerical methods in CME 306. Is there a more detailed Table Of Contents?

To be honest, most of the PDEs have little overlap with comp. fin. but in fairness that is probably not the course objective?

 

[Ken Abbott]

Those are some excellent points. Thank you very much for the response. Do US banks really rate NYU that highly for finance?

Final questions directed at Ken - what are your thoughts on the Stanford Mathematical and Computational Finance program. The old Financial Mathematics program was on the QuantNet rankings but the new program is not listed. No one has even mentioned this on the Forum:

Institute for Computational and Mathematical Engineering | Stanford University

I have no experience with anyone from Stanford.

I have been teaching at NYU for over 10 years. I have been uniformly impressed with the caliber of the students there. I have seen dozens (no hyperbole) become very successful.

 

[Mathchismo]

I have no experience with anyone from Stanford.

I have been teaching at NYU for over 10 years. I have been uniformly impressed with the caliber of the students there. I have seen dozens (no hyperbole) become very successful.

Thank you both for the time and expertise - I'm sure your comments are helping alot of other users!

I really appreciate it!