Leaving academia (questions, doubts)

[physicsprof]

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[Christian]

I'm sure everyone will agree that it's never too late to start anything. Several previous posts will echo this sentiment.

However, I don't think being sad about your position in life is a great way to start anything. Read up on finance and become active on Quantnet. If finance is for you then I am sure you will find something you enjoy.

 

[DominiConnor]

Realistically you will be at least 35 before you become a quant, since there is preparation to be done. That's not too old, and in many cases it is not the age itself that is the issue, it is what you have done with the time. Making it up the tree in academia means that you have shown yourself to have delivered on your early promise, implying that you are bright, banks like that.

But you have to examine your motivations carefully, to see how much is "I want to leave here", and how much is "I want to be there".

One feedback we've had about some later entrants who have succeeded in their first path is that they seem arrogant, and this can lead them to worry that you won't be able to cope with the fact that you will be taking orders from people with only masters or even undergrad degrees who may be younger and inherently less smart then you.
Not saying you should undersell yourself, but you need to get past this issue.

 

[physicsprof]

Thanks, DominiConnor

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[alain]

May be you are right, Domini, - I am a bit arrogant. But I can get over this I guess. One of the reasons that I want to leave Academia and physics is because I think that physics is descending into idiocracy and I just do not want to participate in this nonsense. All I have been doing for the last couple of years is writing grants about how to attract blacks and women into science, playing politics, and worrying about funding and citations. This is just bull.. and I can't take any longer. I have no illusions about the quant jobs - I have a lot of friends at Wall Street (mostly failed mathematicians & physicists, who could not find faculty jobs). I seems that you guys have to deal with a lot of crap too, but at least you do not fool yourselves - you are just making money. Period. So, I like this simple philosophy better or so I think. So, I am thinking of taking a leave from my pathetic faculty job and giving it a try.

My follow-up question to you, Domini, is do you really need smart people there or you just need "soldiers," running codes and taking orders from you. From what you told me it appears that ambition is not really a plus, is this correct?

Are there any positions where maturity, high-IQ, and ambition are rewarded and appreciated?

Also, when you say that I may need 1-2 years to prepare myself for a quant job: What do you actually mean? What is so difficult? Any comments would be appreciated.

Dude, come down to earth from whatever height you are now. The fact that you called your "friends" failed mathematicians and physicists says a lot.

Wall Street is also full of politics so don't think that you will come in and see gold flowing. You will have to prove yourself... and that might involve doing mundane tasks.

The street will reward maturity, high IQ and ambition but you will have to prove that you have all of them... and the interview is just the beginning. You will have to prove it on the trenches as well... Ah, and keep in mind, you will be working on a team of people where they might not be as bright as you but they will definitely have the trust of their bosses. Until you prove yourself, you just be "the new guy".

 

[physicsprof]

Re:

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[alain]

Alain, thanks!




> Dude, come down to earth from whatever height you are now.


Touche! You are totally right. Thanks for your advice - I appreciate it.

But let me ask a few constructive questions:

1. What is the minimal set of skills needed if I do want to get a (quant) job? I used to think that the book "Options, futures, and other derivatives..." is enough on the finance side, is this correct?

2. What would the position and/or company (if any), where I could minimize the time that I have to deal with 2x-old kids just out of college?

3. Are there any other positions (apart from quants), where people with physics/math background are needed and adequately rewarded?



Thanks

Let me give you my input since I work with 2 Physics PhDs that used to work at CERN and now are in my group (very bright people, one very young, one a little older). The younger guy didn't know anything about finance when he came on board (and I mean nothing) but he was a star doing C++ coding. Now he writes our main Risk Engine in Java so the finance part might not be that important. You should know some but Quant groups would rather you know less finance than Math, Probabilities, Stoch Calc and coding.

Regarding #2, I don't know about position but you would probably would like to join a small firm with established people. If it is a start up hedge fund even better although that will put a lot of pressure on you. However, the road to prove yourself will be really really short because you either make it or not.

About #3, again, the reward part will come by itself. If you are good (and you claim you are), you will get paid sooner rather than later. As I mentioned before, the money part will sort itself out.

 

[EricFleming]

there's only one way to know if you are Wall St Material...

It's to get your resume out there and start interviewing.

All other discussion is "academic".

And a word on arrogance: it will get you exactly nowhere in the interview process. Learn humility if you want to get in the door.

Right now you may have a good background, but you are unproven on the Street. As you prove yourself, the lucre will come.

And I concur, there is politics and idiocy to be found everywhere, including Wall Street, unfortunately.