Senate approves restriction on foreign hires by banks receiving bailout

[bob]

After a meeting with one of our Russian developers, just before sending some specs off to one of our Chinese developers, having lately scanned an email from our Indian head of development, while waiting for our lead developer to come online in New Zealand, I thought I'd add my own opinion to the mix....

The notion that investment banks hire workers on visas because they can pay them less doesn't really pass the smell test to me. The US is in other respects a rather extensive object lesson in how those in power tend to bring along those who look and talk like themselves, never mind the cost. Certainly if Appalachia were a goldmine of quant developers, I expect that I'd hear a lot more country music down here on the southern tip of Manhattan.

To me, the plain fact is that, taken en masse, those who have been shaped by the US education system know very little, and are moreover quite proud of the fact. The culture denigrates and derides most things that are not instantly comprehensible: not an environment apt to nurture intellectual--certainly not scientific--inquiry.

In short, this country relies on highly skilled and smart workers from other shores with good reason. I, for one, hope as many as possible stay.

 

[atreides]

This site gives a breakdown of companies applying for H-1Bs and green cards for the past couple of years, the Microsofts, Satyams, IBMs, Oracles are at the top of the food chain

http://www.myvisajobs.com/Top_Visa_Sponsors.aspx

http://www.myvisajobs.com/

The point is not valid and risky for U.S. in medium-term as many other people pointed on this thread.
However, for sake of argument, let's assume everyone agrees that we need to ensure no American job is lost before a person with H1-B. I have argued here that financial sector holds a small percentage of the "problem". Wouldn't you want to go after the companies that apply for 5,000-10,000 visas?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

As the debate over H-1B workers and skilled immigrants intensifies, we are losing sight of one important fact: The U.S. is no longer the only land of opportunity. If we don't want the immigrants who have fueled our innovation and economic growth, they now have options elsewhere. Immigrants are returning home in greater numbers. And new research shows they are returning to enjoy a better quality of life, better career prospects, and the comfort of being close to family and friends.

Earlier research by my team suggested that a crisis was brewing because of a burgeoning immigration backlog. At the end of 2006, more than 1 million skilled professionals (engineers, scientists, doctors, researchers) and their families were in line for a yearly allotment of only 120,000 permanent resident visas. The wait time for some people ran longer than a decade. In the meantime, these workers were trapped in "immigration limbo." If they changed jobs or even took a promotion, they risked being pushed to the back of the permanent residency queue. We predicted that skilled foreign workers would increasingly get fed up and return to countries like India and China where the economies were booming.

Why should we care? Because immigrants are critical to the country's long-term economic health. Despite the fact that they constitute only 12% of the U.S. population, immigrants have started 52% of Silicon Valley's technology companies and contributed to more than 25% of our global patents. They make up 24% of the U.S. science and engineering workforce holding bachelor's degrees and 47% of science and engineering workers who have PhDs. Immigrants have co-founded firms such as Google (NasdaqGS:GOOG - News), Intel (NasdaqGS:INTC - News), eBay (NasdaqGS:EBAY - News), and Yahoo! (NasdaqGS:YHOO - News).

Who Are They? Young and Well-Educated

We tried to find hard data on how many immigrants had returned to India and China. No government authority seems to track these numbers. But human resources directors in India and China told us that what was a trickle of returnees a decade ago had become a flood. Job applications from the U.S. had increased tenfold over the last few years, they said. To get an understanding of how the returnees had fared and why they left the U.S., my team at Duke, along with AnnaLee Saxenian of the University of California at Berkeley and Richard Freeman of Harvard University, conducted a survey. Through professional networking site LinkedIn, we tracked down 1,203 Indian and Chinese immigrants who had worked or received education in the U.S. and had returned to their home countries. This research was funded by the Kauffman Foundation.

Our new paper, "America's Loss Is the World's Gain," finds that the vast majority of these returnees were relatively young. The average age was 30 for Indian returnees, and 33 for Chinese. They were highly educated, with degrees in management, technology, or science. Fifty-one percent of the Chinese held master's degrees and 41% had PhDs. Sixty-six percent of the Indians held a master's and 12.1% had PhDs. They were at very top of the educational distribution for these highly educated immigrant groups -- precisely the kind of people who make the greatest contribution to the U.S. economy and to business and job growth.

Nearly a third of the Chinese returnees and a fifth of the Indians came to the U.S. on student visas. A fifth of the Chinese and nearly half of the Indians entered on temporary work visas (such as the H-1B). The strongest factor that brought them to the U.S. was professional and educational development opportunities.

What They Miss: Family and Friends

They found life in the U.S. had many drawbacks. Returnees cited language barriers, missing their family and friends at home, difficulty with cultural assimilation, and care of parents and children as key issues. About a third of the Indians and a fifth of the Chinese said that visas were a strong factor in their decision to return home, but others left for opportunity and to be close to family and friends. And it wasn't just new immigrants who were returning. In fact, 30% of respondents held permanent resident status or were U.S. citizens.

Eighty-seven percent of Chinese and 79% of Indians said a strong factor in their original decision to return home was the growing demand for their skills in their home countries. Their instincts generally proved right. Significant numbers moved up the organization chart. Among Indians the percentage of respondents holding senior management positions increased from 10% in the U.S. to 44% in India, and among Chinese it increased from 9% in the U.S. to 36% in China. Eighty-seven percent of Chinese and 62% of Indians said they had better opportunities for longer-term professional growth in their home countries than in the U.S. Additionally, nearly half were considering launching businesses and said entrepreneurial opportunities were better in their home countries than in the U.S.

Friends and family played an equally strong role for 88% of Indians and 77% of Chinese. Care for aging parents was considered by 89% of Indians and 79% of Chinese to be much better in their home countries. Nearly 80% of Indians and 67% of Chinese said family values were better in their home countries.

More Options Back Home

Immigrants who have arrived at America's shores have always felt lonely and homesick. They had to make big personal sacrifices to provide their children with better opportunities than they had. But they never have had the option to return home. Now they do, and they are leaving.

It isn't all rosy back home. Indians complained of traffic and congestion, lack of infrastructure, excessive bureaucracy, and pollution. Chinese complained of pollution, reverse culture shock, inferior education for children, frustration with government bureaucracy, and the quality of health care. Returnees said they were generally making less money in absolute terms, but they also said they enjoyed a higher quality of life.

We may not need all these workers in the U.S. during the deepening recession. But we will need them to help us recover from it. Right now, they are taking their skills and ideas back to their home countries and are unlikely to return, barring an extraordinary recruitment effort and major changes to immigration policy. That hardly seems likely given the current political climate. The policy focus now seems to be on doing whatever it takes to retain existing American jobs -- even if it comes at the cost of building a workforce for the future of America.

Why Skilled Immigrants Are Leaving the U.S. - Yahoo! News

 

[buddyforall]

The point is not valid and risky for U.S. in medium-term as many other people pointed on this thread.
However, for sake of argument, let's assume everyone agrees that we need to ensure no American job is lost before a person with H1-B. I have argued here that financial sector holds a small percentage of the "problem". Wouldn't you want to go after the companies that apply for 5,000-10,000 visas?

The problem with 5,000 to 10,000 Visa Jobs is that these are maintenance Jobs ( euphemism) which in the long run Americans wouldn't prefer to do.

Secondly they act as low cost solutions and they help business earn profits.This system is thoroughly established and you don't want to mess with a system thats working fine and is in equilibrium.

Now if you take Finance Jobs these are the Jobs with huge upside potencial unlike IT Jobs.

 

[Stefan Zota]

If you consider all Technology as "maintenance" jobs then I can partially agree. Otherwise, you are incorrect. Most Technology jobs are in software development/systems engineering. Wage is higher than average wage. I doubt that a regular American would rather work on average wage just to avoid IT. In fact, there were "protests" over some Microsoft cuts a week ago.

Another questionable statement is that finance jobs have a huge upside potential.
By the way, I think you are aware that at least 30-40% jobs in financial companies are in IT or directly related to IT. So a lot of H1-B workers at large banks are in IT, they could have worked in Microsoft in IBM just as well.

 

[buddyforall]

Not all technology is maintenance but the type of Jobs done by Infosys , Wipro, TCS,Cognizant is 85% maintenance stuff.See who all are the major users of H1 B.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H1B_visa

India's so called best IT firm Infosys in its 25 years of existence and having 100,000 employees has developed 1 product finacle and that too is nothing great.The case with other firms is no better.Even Microsoft mainly works on Testing of its different applications. Even the development is about finding previously written code and changing a few variables here and there. How do I know all this, I have friends working in these firms.


If you take finance only quants or people assisting quants are doing programming in C++.Banks do have an IT department. However I don't think that constitutes 40% of finance when you take I Banking , M & A , Investment Management , FIR , ER etc.

However I totaly accept your point that IT guys in Banks could well work in IBM while this is hurting the fresh, newly minted MFEs.

 

[Vadim]

Here is a pretty fresh article:
A Hiring Bind for Foreigners and Banks - DealBook Blog - NYTimes.com

What could be worse than graduating from an American business school this year with an interest in banking?

Being such a graduate who is not a United States citizen.

A provision in the economic stimulus package limits the hiring of foreign workers by any company receiving government bailout money. In finance, that is nearly every big employer, The New York Times’s Jonathan D. Glater reports.

At least one financial institution, Bank of America, has rescinded job offers to foreign citizens, citing the new law, signed by President Obama last month.

Some banks are quietly trying to sidestep the limits — and perhaps to make good on their job offers — by finding positions abroad for noncitizens, according to college officials.

Financial institutions seem to be tiptoeing around the core debate about whether it is best to protect American jobs or allow unfettered competition, wishing not to alienate the very lawmakers who are dispensing taxpayer money that is keeping some of them afloat.

Absent precise regulations, which have yet to be issued, big banks are being forced to re-examine the hundreds of students that many of them would normally add to their training classes at the end of the academic year. The bill affects people who might have obtained what are called H-1B visas, typically granted to foreign professional workers with skills sought by United States employers. Existing workers are not affected.

Patricia Rose, director of career services at the University of Pennsylvania, said companies were coming up with ad hoc policies. “Each bank is consulting with their outside legal counsel,” she told The Times, “and trying to determine what they can and cannot do.”

The provision — sometimes called Made in America, because it is intended to preserve jobs for Americans in this time of distress — is being criticized by some immigration advocates and deans of business schools, which draw significant numbers of students from overseas.

“It sends a protectionist-oriented message that’s not necessarily conducive to fostering economic recovery,” said Bob Sakinawa, associate director of advocacy at the American Immigration Lawyers Association in Washington. People like the business school students affected by the law are valuable assets that the country should use, he said. “Why cut off that avenue of talent?”

R. Glenn Hubbard, the dean of Columbia’s business school, raised concerns about the restrictions on hiring in letters to Timothy F. Geithner, the secretary of the Treasury, and Lawrence H. Summers, head of the National Economic Council.

In talking with students recently, Mr. Hubbard called the limits on companies receiving federal bailout funds “absolutely terrible,” according to Columbia. He added, “It gives an advantage to international institutions over American institutions.”

The number of people affected is small relative to the job losses of late. According to David M. Santos, a spokesman for United States Citizenship and Immigration Services, the number of H-1B visas is capped at 65,000 annually, with some exceptions. And several big colleges and business schools said the effect on their students was minimal.

But the subject of immigration is highly contentious at a time of rapidly rising unemployment.

“What the folks at the financial institutions have done is essentially hire people from abroad at lower wages when there are plenty of American workers who can do very fine work,” Bernard Sanders, the independent senator from Vermont and a sponsor of the provision, told The Times.

Mr. Sanders said that he was sympathetic to the plight of students whose job offers had vanished.

“I’m sure they’re decent, bright young people,” Mr. Sanders said of business school students from abroad. “But I also appreciate the people in this country, who have worked their entire lives, who were laid off by the industry. I think they should have the first opportunity.”

Representatives of several banks declined to comment about the visa issue, including JPMorgan Chase, which according to the government had about 150 H-1B visa applications approved last year, and Citigroup. At Wells Fargo and PNC, representatives said that the visa provision would have very little effect because the companies hired few H-1B workers.

A spokeswoman for Bank of America confirmed that the company had rescinded job offers to a small number of people who would have needed H-1B visas, citing “recent changes in legislation.” The spokeswoman, in an e-mail message, added that the bank “had very much looked forward to these individuals joining the company.”

Officials of several colleges and business schools held out hope that when the rules putting the restrictions into effect are issued, they will help resolve concerns. “We’re waiting to see, to better understand for each firm, what the implications will be,” Regina Resnick, assistant dean and director of career services at Columbia’s business school, told The Times. “We’ve reached out to all the firms that recruit here.”

 

[Uncle Max]

Employers apply for fewer skilled guest-worker visas
​

U.S. employers have applied for guest-worker visas that would allow 62,000 new foreign professionals to get jobs in offices, labs, public schools and hospitals beginning this year.

It's but a fraction of the total number of so-called H-1B visas that employers — mostly in the technology industry — have sought in each of the past few years, due in part to the economic crisis and growing animosity toward holders of such visas.

But, for some U.S. workers who have lost their jobs in recent months, that's still 62,000 jobs too many.

"What upsets me is that many of these are jobs that deliberately bypass Americans," said one laid-off Microsoft worker who asked that her name not be used. "We never even had a chance to apply for them."

Citizenship and Immigration Services each year makes 85,000 H-1B visas available to foreign professionals with at least a bachelor's degree or equivalent — including 20,000 for those with advanced degrees from U.S. colleges and universities.

Employers who file visa petitions on behalf of the foreign professionals they recruit don't have to prove there are no U.S. workers available for the jobs.

And applications for workers in the high-tech and health-care industries have poured in during recent years.

In fact, in the previous two years, the government received so many applications on the first day it began accepting them that it cut the application period short and held a lottery to distribute the visas already applied for.

This year, the government began accepting employers' petitions for the visas on April 1 and by last week had received 42,000 applications for the 65,000 bachelor-level visas. The limit for the advanced-degree visas already had been reached.

By contrast, employers last year had applied for nearly triple the number of available visas within the first two days.

"While not as brisk as in past years, there's interest in these visas," said Sharon Rummery, spokeswoman for Citizenship and Immigration Services. Her department will continue to accept applications until the number reaches the Congress-mandated cap.

Attorneys had predicted that, given the state of the economy, fewer applications for H-1B visas would be received this year.

Employers that get federal bailout funds now are required to state, not prove, they have attempted to find and hire qualified U.S. workers and that employment of an H-1B worker would not displace U.S. workers.

Microsoft, one of the largest H-1B employers, said it was applying for "substantially fewer" foreign workers this year, but instead was using the H-1B program to extend the stay of existing guest workers, such as those on the lesser-known L-visas.

About 10 percent of Microsoft's U.S. work force are H-1B visa holders.

Steve Miller, a Seattle-based immigration attorney, said employers — particularly small and medium-sized ones — are being cautious, given the cost of hiring H-1B workers.

In addition to visa fees and attorney costs, employers are required to pay H-1B workers the prevailing wage. Set by the government, that wage lags the market. Real wages have been pushed down by the recession.

"They're stuck with data from the good years," Miller said. "Employers have to really want an H-1B candidate to be locked into a salary that is so much above where the market is right now."

He said a larger portion of H-1B candidates this year involves foreign professionals with advanced, rather than four-year, degrees. "Because of the downturn in the economy," he said, "the positions that remain still somewhat in need tend to be the very high-end, very top positions."

None of that, however, appeases Donna Conroy, director of a Chicago-based group called Bright Future Jobs, which wants to restrict the corporate visa program.

Conroy is working with members of Congress on legislation that would give U.S. citizens and legal permanent residents first crack at jobs that go to H-1B candidates.

"The biggest misconception that the American public has embraced is that employers have to seek local talent first," she said. "We want to create an opportunity so that U.S. workers can at least compete for these jobs."

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Wall Street Still Finds Ways to Hire Foreigners

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123975190063718725.html

Some big U.S. banks that have received billions of dollars from the government are shipping some of their newest recruits overseas in order to comply with a federal law that restricts their ability to hire foreign workers for U.S. jobs.

Although some financial firms have rescinded job offers to such prospective employees, J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., Citigroup Inc., Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley are offering international jobs to foreign students whom they have recruited from U.S. colleges and graduate schools. The new hires are being sent to global financial centers like London and Hong Kong.

The overall numbers affected by the restrictions are small, but the moves represent the banking industry's latest effort to deal with what they consider to be untenable consequences of the Troubled Asset Relief Program.

"There are no U.S. immigration restrictions on people working outside the U.S., so anyone who wants to can have folks work in London versus New York," says Allen Erenbaum, a lawyer specializing in immigration issues at Mayer Brown LLP in Los Angeles.

Under the federal economic-stimulus package signed by President Obama in February, companies that receive TARP funds face additional hurdles before they can hire skilled foreign workers who need temporary work permits known as H-1B visas. Firms that have received government money must prove they have tried to recruit American workers for those jobs and that the foreigners aren't replacing U.S. citizens.

Bank executives have privately lambasted some of TARP's restrictions, particularly those that seek to limit compensation.

Some firms already are exploring loopholes that would allow them to raise base salaries in order to offset potential restrictions in bonus packages.

Restrictions on foreign workers have frustrated bank executives who compete to recruit students fresh out of college or graduate school. They say it is in the nation's interest for them to hire highly skilled foreigners who are educated in the U.S. rather than have non-U.S. companies benefit from their American training.

Such recruitment efforts are a Wall Street tradition, with firms establishing formal relationships with the U.S.'s top universities. Wall Street firms also use these programs to hire minority students from the U.S. and abroad.

Lloyd Blankfein, Goldman's chief executive, described the visa restrictions as "protectionist and self-defeating" in a speech this month to the Council of Institutional Investors.

"Especially at this time in our economy, do we really want to tell individuals who will help companies to grow and innovate -- ultimately creating more jobs -- that they should go work elsewhere?" Mr. Blankfein said.

About 50 of J.P. Morgan's 225,000 employees, or 3% of its graduating hires, are affected by the new restrictions, according to a person familiar with the matter. Most of them work in the firm's investment bank. Rather than rescind offers, J.P. Morgan is sending those new hires to London, São Paulo and Hong Kong, say people familiar with the bank's strategy. J.P. Morgan CEO James Dimon has said the firm, which received $25 billion under TARP, took the money after the government requested it to do so and would like to pay it back.

Less than 1% of Citigroup's roughly 300,000 U.S. employees hold H-1B visas, according to a person familiar with the situation. The firm, which has received $50 billion in TARP funds, is sending affected employees to assorted foreign locations based on factors such as the worker's specific skills and native language.

The firm "is exploring potential opportunities in our non-U.S. global operations for those who may be affected by the law," a Citi spokesman said.

A Goldman spokesman said the firm will ask recruits to work in other offices if they can't get a U.S. visa. "We will honor the offers we have made," he said.

Other companies are leaving it up to the prospective employee to pursue overseas jobs. A spokeswoman for Bank of America Corp. says the firm rescinded a small number of job offers to prospective employees who need H-1B visas, but "like anyone, these individuals are welcome to pursue opportunities with the company based outside of the U.S."

The visa restrictions are also proving to be nettlesome to hedge funds and other investors who may seek to participate in a government-backed program designed to stimulate credit markets. Those firms, too, may be subject to the limitations on H-1B visas under certain circumstances.

 

[atreides]

Stumbled on this at NYT...The Japanese paying immigrants to go back home due to the bad job situation See Link . I always thought Japan was immigration averse

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I read that article a few days ago and wasn't that surprised. Japan is one of, if not the most, strictest country when it comes to immigration. I'm not sure with the aging population and low birth rate, what they'll do in the future to maintain the growth rate.

 

[bigbadwolf]

Stumbled on this at NYT...The Japanese paying immigrants to go back home due to the bad job situation See Link . I always though Japan was immigration averse

The article describes a similar program by Spain (albeit not with the draconian restriction that those accepting the offer can never return). And Norway, where I'm at right now, has or will soon have a similar program for unemployed Poles. In the US, immigration officials are cracking down on illegal workers more diligently because Americans are now willing to do the dirty, dangerous, and low-paid jobs frequently done by such workers. So it's not a phenomenon restricted to Japan.

If Japan's export orders have plunged by 45%, a similar figure holds for Germany and maybe for Sweden as well. The global system has broken down and authorities are willing to consider ideas that would have been inconceivable a year or two back.

 

[DominiConnor]

It is ironic that a right wing brain dead Creationist ensured that America let in lots of coloured people, and that a smart black guy has specifically ordered that many coloured people get fired, and then thrown out of the country.

Do these racist arts majors in the Democrat party really believe that these people will just go back to their parents mud hut, and spend the rest of their lives digging ditches ?

No.
They have been educated at some mix of Indian IITs, Ivy Leagues, "top schools", MFEs and PhD. They then have gone and worked for some of the smartest banks in the world, and learned banking from the masters.

So what are they going to do ?
Compete against American firms from bases in China, India, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and London, especially London. I have had a wave of resumes from Indians who've been Obama'ed and who've worked out that Britain has not yet fallen into racist isolationism.

But in India et al, they will earn less.
So you have people who we know for a fact are as good as US citizens, trained and educated to the same or better standard, but working for 1/3 the money. They nearly all speak English well from the work / education time, and are on average rather younger ,with the bulk of their careers ahead of them.

If I were a national leader, I'd spend real money to stop that happening, not coerce them into bugging out.
For various bizarre reasons, the British government has a scheme to attract foreign people to Europe's 4th most important Financial centre, Edinburgh.
(4th After the City of London, Canary Wharf and Mayfair) .

 

[bigbadwolf]

It is ironic that a right wing brain dead Creationist ensured that America let in lots of coloured people, and that a smart black guy has specifically ordered that many coloured people get fired, and then thrown out of the country.

Do these racist arts majors in the Democrat party really believe that these people will just go back to their parents mud hut, and spend the rest of their lives digging ditches?

The Democrats are usually more anti-immigration than the Republicans -- perhaps because they have (slightly) stronger ties with labour and trade unions, which tend to be against immigration of any kind. The Republicans, on the other hand, with their (slightly) stronger ties to business tend to be for immigration of all kinds -- from unskilled and illegal to high-tech and highly-qualified.

 

[luso]

Just think one thing, what if other nations are doing the same to the US companies in their country? GS, MS, BOA, JPM, Citi, AIG, ... you name it, all of them are making money in GEM.

What if the rest of the world requires all the US passport holders to obtain a highly restricted working visa like the H1B here in order to work in their countries?

What if US Companies can't operate their branches in the rest of the world because they can't send managers from US to work there?

 

[alain]

I don't agree with the immigrations policies but regarding your last point:

What if US Companies can't operate their branches in the rest of the world because they can't send managers from US to work there?

This is still the case now a days. Only that the US companies usually manage to "grease" the wheels of the systems abroad.

 

[bigbadwolf]

What if US Companies can't operate their branches in the rest of the world because they can't send managers from US to work there?

US companies typically prefer to have just one American or two to head foreign operations -- so as to provide oversight. The rest of the staff they prefer to hire locally and they pay them local wages (much cheaper). When I was living in Pakistan in the mid-'80s, I remember that the Pakistani #2 of a US bank (Citibank?) was earning about $800 a month -- which wasn't much in Pakistan even then. For the Americans posted there, the banks or companies don't encounter that much difficulty in securing a work visa.

 

[curioUno]

Do these racist arts majors in the Democrat party really believe that these people will just go back to their parents mud hut, and spend the rest of their lives digging ditches ?

No.
They have been educated at some mix of Indian IITs, Ivy Leagues, "top schools", MFEs and PhD. They then have gone and worked for some of the smartest banks in the world, and learned banking from the masters.

So what are they going to do ?
Compete against American firms from bases in China, India, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and London, especially London. I have had a wave of resumes from Indians who've been Obama'ed and who've worked out that Britain has not yet fallen into racist isolationism.

But in India et al, they will earn less.
So you have people who we know for a fact are as good as US citizens, trained and educated to the same or better standard, but working for 1/3 the money. They nearly all speak English well from the work / education time, and are on average rather younger ,with the bulk of their careers ahead of them.

If I were a national leader, I'd spend real money to stop that happening, not coerce them into bugging out.
For various bizarre reasons, the British government has a scheme to attract foreign people to Europe's 4th most important Financial centre, Edinburgh.
(4th After the City of London, Canary Wharf and Mayfair) .

Please also see the bright side of things. All these bright people driven out of financial centers like new york are bright, and they could help less developed financial centers like Shanghai, Mumbai etc develop. They do not necessarily have to compete with american firms, all they might do is to make the industry bigger and hopefully better in their countries. Ultimately people in beijing univ, IITs etc have been funded by their respective countires taxpayers, and in a way those taxpayers are getting some (although less than optimal) returns on their investment. All these years, the taxpayers in those countries(China, India, Taiwan &
other emerging countries) were paying for the developed countires like US to reap the benfit of their respective countries' best brains and education without getting anything in return.

 

[Stefan Zota]

So what are they going to do ?
Compete against American firms from bases in China, India, Taiwan, Hong Kong, and London, especially London. I have had a wave of resumes from Indians who've been Obama'ed and who've worked out that Britain has not yet fallen into racist isolationism.

The main risk is the actual loss of talent, not necessarily future competition. These people can work abroad for U.S. banks just as well. Especially since these banks are offering higher wages than the market.

But in India et al, they will earn less.
So you have people who we know for a fact are as good as US citizens, trained and educated to the same or better standard, but working for 1/3 the money. They nearly all speak English well from the work / education time, and are on average rather younger ,with the bulk of their careers ahead of them.

If I were a national leader, I'd spend real money to stop that happening, not coerce them into bugging out.

Rationally everyone agrees that protectionism is a high risk for every contraction/recession. No question about it. The problem is that protectionism is a normal human reaction.

 

[woody]

Bob, throwing the American school system under the bus. My biggest problem is that some schools are great and others totally suck, and which one you go to depends on how fortunate (read wealthy) your parents are (for the most part).

Regarding immigration, we will need a lot more of it if we want the economy to grow the way we need it to, so any clamp-down cannot last long. Protectionism in general was one of the big problems with the way countries reacted to the great depression. One hopes lessons are learned, but politics often trumps history.