Chinese Applicants Flood U.S. Graduate Schools

[Andy Nguyen]

Pretty interesting trend on the changing demographic among graduate applicants

More than ever, Chinese students have their sights set on U.S. graduate schools.

Application volume from that country rose 18% for U.S. master's and doctoral programs starting this fall, according to a new report from the Council of Graduate Schools that provides a preliminary measure of application trends. Specific programs of interest include engineering, business and earth sciences.

That is on top of a 21% jump last year and a 20% rise in 2010—and is the seventh consecutive year of double-digit gains from China, according to the graduate-school industry group. Applications from China now comprise nearly half of all international applications to U.S. graduate programs.

China's expanding middle class has fueled an interest in expensive U.S. schools, as has corporations' interest in hiring local talent with Western exposure. As the quality of undergraduate institutions in China improves, more young people are also finding U.S. programs within reach. And as more Chinese students attend U.S. schools,burgeoning they encourage friends and colleagues to apply in what is called a "multiplier effect."

Not only is China the largest country of origin for international graduate students in the U.S., but its rate of growth is far outpacing all other countries and regions in the survey, including South Korea and India. Overall, international application volume rose 9% this year, according to preliminary results

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304750404577319922446665462.html

 

[martingaletrader]

This has been the case for many years. What will schools do about it if they are to ensure a balanced intake of students and maintain diversity. I think this is a hard question. Some schools don't care. Some schools are mostly Asian in certain programs. This in turn affects non-Asian applicants in choosing where to study. But will this trend continue of rising numbers.

 

[jondan]

This has been the case for many years. What will schools do about it if they are to ensure a balanced intake of students and maintain diversity. I think this is a hard question. Some schools don't care. Some schools are mostly Asian in certain programs. This in turn affects non-Asian applicants in choosing where to study. But will this trend continue of rising numbers.

Restricting asian students, especially from China and India, are not possible because it is discrimination against race and country of origin which countries like USA, Canada, UK are not able to do so, it is in their law

 

[mfegrad]

Restricting asian students, especially from China and India, are not possible because it is discrimination against race and country of origin which countries like USA, Canada, UK are not able to do so, it is in their law

you are sadly mistaken. us universities can and do discriminate when it comes to race and country of origin. they just do it under the premise of creating a "diverse" class.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

It's a dilemma
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...ion-squeezes-out-asian-american-students.html

 

[purplyboy]

Restricting asian students, especially from China and India, are not possible because it is discrimination against race and country of origin which countries like USA, Canada, UK are not able to do so, it is in their law

http://colorlines.com/archives/2012...riminate_against_asian-american_students.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ian-americans/2012/02/02/gIQAkIZYkQ_blog.html

 

[jondan]

It's a dilemma
http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...ion-squeezes-out-asian-american-students.html

Oh so that means they discriminate american asian but then take in more asian asian?!? If it is just for the sake of tuition fee, I feel that these schools are really cheap and not deserve the prestige that they have

 

[menovive]

In my class, there are many ppl from across the world and we(Ind) are at par with Russians and way outnumbered by French and Chinese !

 

[DominiConnor]

I'ts not a "dilemma" as Andy suggests, it's racism.
This "Diversity" is just a more complex form of racism, reflecting the prejudices of people in academia as opposed to other people who think the colour of your skin or your accent is the principal determinant of your worth.

One thing I've noticed is that the % of females in science/tech/finance courses is higher amongst Chinese than amongst what I might choose to call "white" people. Many diversity bigots see getting more women in as a goal, so which wins ? Their racism against Chinese people, or their sexism in giving preference to female applicants ?
WTF is "Chinese" anyway. I'm not very good at racism, I've never put the effort in, if you wanted me to discriminate against Chinese people, I'd probably get some Vietnamese and Burmeses by mistake and I've noticed that Finnish people sometimes have what look like to my ignorant eyes rather Chinese looking names.

We've all done maths here right ?
We all learned that 3+4 =7 so long ago that we don't even consciously think about the deeper meaning of this, in that 3+4=7 regardless of whether these 7 things are carrots or space shuttles. In other word if we say 3 Carrots + 4 Carrots we get 7 Carrots and swap any other noun and the result holds.

Let's apply the same reasoning to the "Diversity" argument.
China sends many people to the USA to study and this impacts Diversity, our university should set a boundary on the number of such students, including those of Chinese ancestry.
OK, pick another noun.
Israel sends many people to the USA to study and this impacts Diversity, our university should set a boundary on the number of such students, including those of Israeli ancestry.

I believe that as a % of its population Israel sends more people to study in the US than any other country and the absolute number is substantial, so we're not stretching observed facts very hard.
But...
If any university said "we're restricting students of Israeli origin" the person responsible and the guy who hired him and many of his friends would never work in academia again, possibly never work anywere ever again.
Actually, that's not quite true...
Before the Jewish lobby got organised this was actually the norm, many US universities had it as an explicit policy, it wasn't just a couple of racists in admissions admin. Recall how Reichard Feynman got rejected as an undergrad because he was Jewish, given that not only was he shown to be a genius in later life, unlike Einstein who didn't blossom until later life Proessor Feynman was clearly outstanding from a very early age, it was his race that shafted him in the eyes of racists.
So "Diversity" is just a term in the internal politics of universities, some people don't like Chinese, they might not like Jews either or blacks or they might be Jewish or black since racism is not a monopoly held by white people. I suspect faith is in there as well, far fewer Chinese nationals are Christian than people born in the USA and very few are Jewish, which can't help when so many people openly admit they see your faith or lack of it as a valid measure of your worth.

 

[TRAB]

Given the demand for education by Chinese students, you would think the country would invest more money into its education system. That is money leaving their country.

 

[dazzwater]

This shouldn't be a question for the schools. This should be a question for the US govt regarding whether there is a need to set a quota on student F1 visas a la the H1B visa system, to avoid over-representation of students from any particular country.

IMO, a quota means that US universities will not get to select the best students regardless of nationality, which would have an impact on the quality of their graduates/research/etc. On the other hand, without a quota, we will have too many Chinese/Indian graduates competing for the same H1B slots, although I don't think that is a problem from Uncle Sam's point of view.

 

[purplyboy]

Maybe the schools don't want this. They get more money from foreign students since most of the time there's no financial aid for them.

 

[martingaletrader]

quality has never been problem. In fact with quotas you can have the best students. The problem is that the numbers are just huge. Also Dominic is accusing the US schools of racism. Well Dominic would you like it if the UK was flooded with Chinese applicants and your esteemed Oxbridge was no longer english but 80% Chinese. EU regulations prevent this from happening. In the US there is no such case. In Europe, the regulations give first preference to europeans - and people can argue whatever they want but this is the truth.

I think some perspective needs to be put here. And what about Chinese or Indian Americans who are been pushed out or marginalized. I think each university is entitled to its own admissions criteria. I think the real shame is that black and hispanic students are being pushed out. The numbers of Asian students is rising. What of the schools in China or Korea or India - why do these students want to come to US. Can't they go to schools in China or Korea.

The problem is everybody wants the US prestige schools - even more so in Asia. And that is why numbers are rising. And admissions is a difficult process. I read in one of the links that Asian students have a flat profile. Whatever that means. But how do you get quality and ascertain student quality. I went to a very prestigious Ivy League. And my school has many applicants from China. Ascertaining quality is like a potshot and totally random.

Why are not Europeans or Americans rushing to study in Asia. What would Korea universities do if they were inundated with white Americans. I think the US schools are too fair and thus they get taken advantage of.

 

[Yang_Pop]

I have saw the birth rate of Chinese people a couple of days ago. It shows that the birth rate kept growing before 1989, a it reach its peak in 1989 and 1990.
Thinking about the economic growth these years, it's no strange that Chinese applicants "flood" the American graduate School and and finance their studying expense there.
Things might change in the future days, since the birth rate has declined quite dramatically since 1995.

 

[dazzwater]

martingaletrader Universities in Singapore are also "inundated" with students from China, India, and other Asian countries. Some locals are unhappy about this, citing the same arguments that you made. But this simply means that the total number of students are increasing. Instead of setting a quota and restricting/banning foreigners, the govt let the market take control; more universities have been founded to meet the demand, and sizes of existing programs have been increased. I believe the same thing is happening in the US; look at the sizes of your graduate or undergraduate programs compared to earlier years.

Although I agree that the situation in Andy's BusinessWeek link above should not be allowed to occur; UC is a public school, and public schools should not be allowed to prioritize non-residents over residents simply because they pay more. That raises another policy question: why is UC taking in local students at a lower tuition rate, but seemingly didn't receive any compensation from the state for the difference between local and out-of-state rates, such that the school is forced to make a rational market decision detrimental to local students? Have Governor Brown sign a bill citing that public schools should be reimbursed any difference in tuition rates. Problem solved.

 

[Yang_Pop]

Although I agree that the situation in Andy's BusinessWeek link above should not be allowed to occur; UC is a public school, and public schools should not be allowed to prioritize non-residents over residents simply because they pay more. That raises another policy question: why is UC taking in local students at a lower tuition rate, but seemingly didn't receive any compensation from the state for the difference between local and out-of-state rates, such that the school is forced to make a rational market decision detrimental to local students? Have Governor Brown sign a bill citing that public schools should be reimbursed any difference in tuition rates. Problem solved.

Interesting, this might be a reason for graduate school's admitting more international students, especially when funding is scarce. Most of the MFE/MMF programs expanded the class size, and increased The tuition fee this year in order to make up for the lack of funding. However, if considering such "rational choices" in the long-run, I think it's quite irrational, since this would damage the reputation of such programs. For example, the similar programs MFE/MMF/MSOR of University of Columbia are expected to admit nearly 300 students in total. That's a huge number, and it's not hard to imagine how hard could these students land a job in NY or US. Most of them are Chinese, which I judge from quantnet and my friends. Thus I believe about two years later, there would be a flood of Columbia graduates seeking jobs in Chinese financial market, and definitely some of this IVY team could not get a good job.

So, I think instead of races or financial conditions, whether an applicant is qualified should be based on his/her academic performances, master of relative knowledge and skills, which assumes him/her to be a potential fit for this area.

 

[dazzwater]

So, I think instead of races or financial conditions, whether an applicant is qualified should be based on his/her academic performances, master of relative knowledge and skills, which assumes him/her to be a potential fit for this area.

That's basically what I said earlier:

UC is a public school, and public schools should not be allowed to prioritize non-residents over residents simply because they pay more.

But your post received a Like while mine received two Dumbs. Interesting audience we have here.

Anyway, the common point here is that nationalism or protectionism shouldn't be allowed to come into the picture. Students ought to be admitted on merit. If the candidate evaluation process for in-state vs out-of-state students is distorted by the difference in tuition revenue, the state govt ought to step in to correct the distortion, at least for state-sponsored public schools like UC, Rutgers, etc.

 

[mfegrad]

But your post received a Like while mine received two Dumbs. Interesting audience we have here.

no reason your post should have been rated dumb. i've received a few of those, as well, and i've come to understand it says more about the rater than the ratee. someone gave me a drive-by dumb blast in one thread on a few posts, so i tried to go to his profile and actively rate him as dumb (instead of his posts). Andy Nguyen, that might be the next thing to include

you were spot on re: your comment about state schools.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Re rating abuse, just report and I will take note.
As for US universities going after those who can pay, Chinese consumers are those with money right now so like any business, schools would Go after this affluent segment.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/b...or-with-wealthy-chinese-tourists.html?_r=1&hp
This also presents a tough challenge to Chinese applicants to stand out among their own group. How would you do if hundred others have similar name, background, score.

 

[bigbadwolf]

I think the real shame is that black and hispanic students are being pushed out.

There are usually quotas set aside for such minorities under some sort of diversity or affirmative action program. That these are also unfair is another matter. The ones really getting squeezed out -- at top-tier schools -- are white American applicants.

The numbers of Asian students is rising. What of the schools in China or Korea or India - why do these students want to come to US. Can't they go to schools in China or Korea.

Some (or most) of these countries are not investing enough in their educational infrastructure. So what happens is -- to use a Scandinavian term -- a kind of "social dumping," where another country's institutions are made to take up the slack for their own deficiencies.

Why are not Europeans or Americans rushing to study in Asia. What would Korea universities do if they were inundated with white Americans. I think the US schools are too fair and thus they get taken advantage of.

I think it has less to do with fairness and more to do with money. Most second-tier engineering, computing, and quant programs would fold without the influx of Chinese and Indian students. In essence, India and China are involved in "social dumping" with the connivance of American universities. As you say, I don't think Europe would allow this.