Crackdown on Online Universities

Andy Nguyen

Andy Nguyen

Joined
5/2/06
Messages
12,527
Points
273
We can only dream of the day when this rule applies to MFE programs ;)

Linky Online Universities: Government Cracks Down on For-Profit Schools - US News and World Report

Starting next year, for-profit schools, including some of the nation's biggest online colleges—like the University of Phoenix, Kaplan University, and Strayer University—will have to provide graduation rate and job placement figures to new students and applicants, the Department of Education has ordered. That's a sample of more than a dozen reforms the government will impose on for-profit schools beginning July 1, 2011. Students will now be able to make more informed decisions, the Department says. "These new rules will help ensure that students are getting from schools what they pay for: solid preparation for a good job," Secretary of Education Arne Duncan said in an Oct. 28 press release.
 
Figures can be completely fudged. For instance, Lehigh University grouped together all students who within six months of graduation either A) obtained *any* job or B) went onto grad school (most likely because presumably, they couldn't *get* a job).

The best way for transparency to take place is for the figure to be the percentage of students that found work that they enjoy. For instance, no lumping together the lucky kids that got to some job that uses their degree vs. those that had to settle for asking "can I take your order" at the nearest starbucks while paying $1000 a month in student loans.
 
The best way would be to report starting salary figures.
 
IlyaKEightSix said:
Figures can be completely fudged. For instance, Lehigh University grouped together all students who within six months of graduation either A) obtained *any* job or B) went onto grad school (most likely because presumably, they couldn't *get* a job).
Click to expand...
For starters, I would be happy with any number at all. We'll deal with the fudge issue when it comes.
The best way for transparency to take place is for the figure to be the percentage of students that found work that they enjoy. For instance, no lumping together the lucky kids that got to some job that uses their degree vs. those that had to settle for asking "can I take your order" at the nearest starbucks while paying $1000 a month in student loans.
Click to expand...
How is that even quantifiable? Are you saying people who got a high paying job enjoy them?
 
Well, let me slightly modify what I said -

Universities should expose the field of work that their graduates go into and their starting salary based on major.

This would alleviate the problem of graduates going to work for non-profits and charities bringing down the mean/median salary figures. It is also of note that my friends that work in charities are some of the happiest-with-their-job people I have met, despite being paid peanuts for [imho] very difficult labor.
 
Never say never. My feeling is that more, not less, programs will eventually publish their stats online to stay competitive.
This is what happened to Columbia MFE program. They published some sort of stats online just recently. They didn't have to for years but now, one of the questions they got asked repeatedly by prospective students is about those internship/job placement.
We're all for helping our members making a better informed decision.
 
Are the degrees from the "for-profit" universities like UofP really useful? I mean, their selectivity is ZERO, and admit rate is 100%, right?

Would you interview someone who got degrees from "for-profit" universities over someone who got degree from real school that requires great academic background to get in?
 
Would you interview someone who got degrees from "for-profit" universities over someone who got degree from real school that requires great academic background to get in?
Click to expand...

why not? if he/she seems good from the resume or there is a relevant experience of some sort, I have no problem interviewing somebody even if they don't have a college degree.
 
Some of these students have $100 K in student loans and then they have to stand behind a counter and ask "Do you want fries with that?". They have to take 25 years of abuse and harassment from the collection agencies and deal with wage garnishments, freezing of bank accounts, repossession of their car, etc. Their lives get effectively ruined because of a bad choice they made when they were too immature to realize what was happening.
 
I don't know how much a school like UofP charges for tuition, but...

I'd rather spend my money on community college than a "for-profit" university like UofP.
 
There is also the University of London's International Programme - which has been on the go in one form or another since the 19thC

The courses are designed by the member schools, for example Banking, Finance, Economics etc. are LSE designed courses.

Exams can be sat in most countries.

The exams are marked to the same standard as regular undergrad papers so there is no softening of the standards for remote students, and it will only set you back about $6K for an undergrad.

I think something like this is far better then the rip-off courses you see being touted these days.
 
Good. I really hope they come down on these scams. I've read so many stories of these degree mills targeting vets, bilking the government (ie you and I) and providing them with a joke of an education. The way these "universities" get their accreditation is almost a joke also.
 
Andy Nguyen said:
If you haven't got enough of how these for-profit universities make money, read this

One for-profit college prez earns 26x the salary of the highest-paid non-profit college prez. His salary is $41.9 mi
Executives Collect $2 Billion Running U.S. For-Profit Colleges - Bloomberg

Kaplan University admits that 2/3 of its students drop out. More on Kaplan's recruiting of military vets
Kaplan Quest for Profits at Taxpayer Expense Ensnares Veteran - Bloomberg
Click to expand...

absolutely disgusting... absolutely sickening that those "CEOs" make that much money by preying on students with college dream.

why would government allow these for-profit "companies" exist in the beginning anyways? does our government realize that the tax payers dollars go into their "CEOs" pockets instead of really helping students pay for education?
 
Well, it is easy money for the colleges. They have realized that 93% of their revenue comes directly from the Federal Government in the form of student loans. So they are preying on these students. Mostly they teach high school stuff and make the students feel smart and intelligent with "A" grade by learning high-school stuff. Then, the students have $70K student loans and they are earning $9 an hour at Starbucks or Burger King or McDonalds. Their student loan accounts go to the collection agencies (72% default rate against traditional 4%). The collection agencies promptly hike up the interest rates and add all sort of penalties. After a few years, they tell the student that he owes $200K on a loan which was originally $70K. Then 25 years of harassment and abuse by the collection agencies begins. They should reintroduce bankruptcy for student loans. Then the government will finally learn the lesson and these "for-profit" colleges and collection agencies will be out of business.
 
coolharvard said:
does our government realize that the tax payers dollars go into their "CEOs" pockets instead of really helping students pay for education?
Click to expand...

The government knows but does not care. It is a pay-to-play political system.

TraderJoe said:
Well, it is easy money for the colleges. They have realized that 93% of their revenue comes directly from the Federal Government in the form of student loans. So they are preying on these students.Then the government will finally learn the lesson and these "for-profit" colleges and collection agencies will be out of business.
Click to expand...

That is a naive point of view. In a pay-to-play political system, the legislation is driven in the following manner:

College kickbacks were small potatoes, however, compared to the millions of dollars Sallie Mae spent lobbying Congress in the 1990s. Collinge demonstrates that its efforts paid off. In 1998, Congress approved legislation that allowed for massive penalties and fees for delinquent student loans, legislation that actually made it more profitable for the lenders and guarantors when students defaulted than when they paid. The 1998 amendment to the Higher Education Act provided for collection rates of up to 25 percent to be applied to the debt.
Click to expand...


And the way the student loan industry operates in general (from the same article):

Collinge’s volume goes on to detail the illegal relationships between Sallie Mae, Congress, and the Department of Education (which supposedly was in charge of oversight) and the financial aid departments of colleges. Bribery, kickbacks and conflicts of interest are everywhere.

Just to cite one example among many from the book, a 2006-2007 investigation by New York politicians Eliot Spitzer and Andrew Cuomo revealed, among other wrongful acts:

• Lenders were paying kickbacks to universities based on a percentage of loan volume that the schools’ financial aid offices steered to lenders.

• Lenders provided all-expenses-paid trips to financial aid administrators and their families to exotic destinations.

• Lenders ran call centers on behalf of universities, often answering phones claiming to be representatives of financial aid offices when they were really employees of lenders.

• Lenders offered large sums of money to universities to drop out of the government Direct Loan Program.

As a result of this one investigation, the University of Pennsylvania, New York University, Syracuse, Fordham, Long Island University and St. Johns agreed to reimburse former students a total of $3.27 million for inflated loans.
Click to expand...
 
bigbadwolf said:
The government knows but does not care. It is a pay-to-play political system.
Click to expand...
How does pay-to-play system work? sounds like corruption to me.

Also, if these college-students-wannabes are smart, there would've been zero demand on these for-profit colleges, and these scams would've gone away.

In the end, it goes back to the stupid choices of these college applicants who fall into this scam trap.
 
coolharvard said:
How does pay-to-play system work? sounds like corruption to me.
Click to expand...

Some people call it that.

Also, if these college-students-wannabes are smart, there would've been zero demand on these for-profit colleges, and these scams would've gone away.

In the end, it goes back to the stupid choices of these college applicants who fall into this scam trap.
Click to expand...

That is true. The problem lies in the small print and the reading age of the average American is what? Sixth grade level? So they fall prey to these scams. But then again, look at the number of people who've enrolled for garbage MFE, MBA and JD programs, with scant job prospects at the end and a mountain of debt.
 
Back
Top Bottom