DISCUSSION on second rated MFE programs

[B.R.Aravind]

So Wat kind of Job Can I get if I do this course From texas A&m Commerce ....I am Also a Guy with Electrical &Electronics engineer with MBA Finance.......

 

[Andy Nguyen]

For the kind of jobs you can realistically expect, the more appropriate place to find out is the website of the programs in question. As both Fordham and Texas are not particularly well known programs around here, there isn't much data to discuss. I don't think anyone here can say much about your job prospect from those programs.

 

[bigbadwolf]

So Wat kind of Job Can I get if I do this course From texas A&m Commerce ....I am Also a Guy with Electrical &Electronics engineer with MBA Finance.......

*Shrug* Difficult to say. First of all, don't do it. As you already have an MBA in finance, it certainly won't improve your situation. Speaking more generally, in today's tight job market, what hiring there is will be for people with strong programming and math skills. MFE quants will probably crowd out people holding more general finance degrees -- at least, that's the way I see it. Finance has been changing, and is becoming ever more programming- and math-based. So shy away from programs that don't emphasise this. Caveat emptor.

 

[B.R.Aravind]

hii this is aravind and I have got my admission for fordham's program so i jus neeed few information regarding the same .....Quality of the program ,recognition in the market.. also if u can give ur email ID it would more helpful for me to discusss.....

 

[bigbadwolf]

hii this is aravind and I have got my admission for fordham's program so i jus neeed few information regarding the same .....Quality of the program ,recognition in the market...

Don't do it. There is now a plethora of second-tier MFE programs, the directors of which are frantic for students willing to shell out $40,000 for mediocre programs. With an MFE qualification from any of these degree mills, the odds against finding appropriate quant work are very steep indeed. As we say, it's a "sucker bet." There are now many prospective quants entering a very tight market. Sorry to sound so negative. Try for schools like Baruch, CMU, Haas. If you can't get in immediately, see what you can do to strengthen your profile (in terms of programming and applied math).

 

[Tigga]

Speaking of which, here is an email I received a while ago from the director of the UCLA program

Dear Tigga,

Thank you for your interest in the Master of Financial Engineering program at UCLA Anderson. If you live in Southern California and haven't attended an MFE information session yet, we'd like to invite you to a roundtable discussion with the Executive Director of the MFE program, Dr. Bob Mark. These informal sessions provide an overview of the program and the admission process, as well as ample time for Q & A. The next MFE Roundtable will be at UCLA Anderson on July 1st from 6:00-7:00pm. You may register online here: UCLA Anderson School of Management | Master of Financial Engineering | Info Sessions.

In addition, Dr. Bob Mark, the Executive Director holds regular "phone hours" every Monday from 12:00 to 2:00pm. During these hours he can be reached at (925)212-7348. Calls from prospective MFE students are welcome!

Feel free to give me a call anytime at (310) 825-3103.
We'd love to hear from you!

Francesca Baugh
Program Director
UCLA Anderson School of Management
Master of Financial Engineering Program
(310) 825-3103

 

[DominiConnor]

BR, I have heard nothing good about the Fordham program at all. I have heard some pretty bad things as well. It was the first MFE I ever warned people against.

 

[Tigga]

Saw this in one of the visitor's comments left on Quantnet. It's interesting to see the director gives advice to do MBA one year, move to MSQF, then go back to finish the MBA. As the visitor put aptly, So, after 3 years, I'll have both degrees, though, still no real experience, just schooling. Not to mention, no internship and no job either.

I'm a first-year Fordham MBA student. I am a career switcher who has worked in hedge funds doing admin work for the last four years. I am fascinated with Risk Management and would like to work in that field upon graduation.

Last week at the Fordham MBA orientation, those who are concentrating in finance were approached by the co-director of the MSQF program (I know, a sore subject in this forum) and it was recommended that we take it to enhance our skills, marketability, etc.

I know you don't think too highly of this program, but my question to you is: do you think that someone like me, with no quantitative background, should go for the Fordham MSQF? They suggested that I take the MBA for one year, suspend that, do the one-year MSQF, and then return to complete the MBA. So, after 3 years, I'll have both degrees, though, still no real experience, just schooling.

Their MSQF requirements are GMAT 640/ Quant 45, so I can actually qualify. They offer refresher courses, and it is not necessary to have an engineering or mathematical undergrad degree in order to apply. A school like Baruch, which is highly selective, most likely will not accept me anyway because of the fundamentals I lack.

 

[phubaba]

just in general, uchicago had a 90% placement before graduates had finished last year (2007) and within 3 months (before 2008 class started) all had been placed.

anyways good luck to everyone who is trying to find a job! work hard, learn to code, and you'll be fine

 

[DominiConnor]

>Last week at the Fordham MBA orientation, those who are concentrating in finance were >approached by the co-director of the MSQF program (I know, a sore subject in this forum) and it was recommended that we take it to enhance our skills, marketability, etc.

I had to go and drink a coffee before I could even start to answer this, and even though I am not a fan of Fordham, I am surprised by this conduct.

I teach on the CQF, and some of you will have seen my presentations on the subject. I never ever recommned groups people do the course. I say "If you want to do X, then it is an option", or "the way we do X is good". But as a headhunter I know that each person has different abilities and goals. Thus I'd see it as unethical to "recommend" to any group that they do that course, or any other.

I know what many of you think about the morals of headhunters, when you drop below our ethical standards than not only is your soul lost, but your local God is going to come and destroy your city, or if you are lucky it will only be a howlng mob armed with knives.

do you think that someone like me, with no quantitative background, should go for the Fordham MSQF?
I know Andy doesn't like bad language and I apologise in advance but no ******* way. What planet does this evil fuckwit come from ?

Do not do a course that you cannot understand.
Either the MSQF is stuff that is beyond your math level, or it is worthless, maybe even both.
This is not the time to work hard at getting to the top of the bottom quartile in any skills set. Not just quant. You need to be competent in general and very very good at something.

They suggested that I take the MBA for one year, suspend that, do the one-year MSQF, and then return to complete the MBA. So, after 3 years, I'll have both degrees, though, still no real experience, just schooling.

Is this post for real ? Are you just making it up to make Fordham look bad ?
I like to think of myself as creative, but I can't think of any reason for this other than them wanting your money.
OK, I exaggerate, I can think oif reasons. Maybe their brains have been taken over by aliens, or they are clinically delusional. Maybe the evil twin of the course director has escaped from prison, captured the real professor, and is impersonating him as part of a scheme to destroy world financial markets.

In some very specific cases, I might advise this. If you had good and deep maths, the course was good , if the MSQF complemented the MBA, and if the money and time consumed was justified by the return in terms of your career.
I'd do that after serious consideration and analysis of you personally, and frankly I'd have to ask searching questions to get it right.

Their MSQF requirements are GMAT 640/ Quant 45, so I can actually qualify.
I don't care.
I'm a headhunter, and will share that someone who just scrapes into a course is not always helping himself get a job, which is why you're doing this stuff. Most of my views on the game theory of job hunting were formed in better times, and I would not have recommended this then. Do you want to be a bottom quartile quant in the market of two years time ?

A school like Baruch, which is highly selective, most likely will not accept me anyway because of the fundamentals I lack.
I've met with the head of the Baruch program and he sets a quite high bar, and is both proud and firm in that position.
He is doing you a favour.

If you can't get in to do a tough course, then what makes you think an employer is going to hire you to do a tough job ?

I'm not saying you're dumb. Quite the contrary, someone is trying to pull the wool over your eyes and you've smelt a rat. That speaks well of your core business acumen, as does seeking advice.

You are good at other things. Become excellent at them.

 

[Tigga]

From early reports, application to MFE programs this year has decreased across the board. The old adage "down market, back to school" may not hold true specially for programs that cost $50K/year or more with no proven placement record.

 

[dstefan]

Tigga, are these Spring applications that you are talking about?

 

[Sanket Patel]

From early reports, application to MFE programs this year has decreased across the board. The old adage "down market, back to school" may not hold true specially for programs that cost $50K/year or more with no proven placement record.

Have any numbers? It'd be interesting to see the magnitude of the decrease.

 

[ExSan]

which ones are still alive ?

Here are the firms and areas in which our first year students will be working; I can also share some of the firms for permanent placement of our second-year students if you are interested:

Goldman Sachs Asset Management (NY)
Goldman Sachs FX Strategy (London)
JPMorgan Sales & Trading (Hong Kong)
JPM Investment Banking/Corporate Finance (Hong Kong)
JPM Chase Treasury Strategies (NY)
Lehman Bros. Asset Management (Chicago)
Lehman Bros. Interest Rate Strategies (NY)
Lehman Bros Structured Trading (NY)
Merrill Lynch Sales & Trading (London)
Merrill Lynch Quantitative Research, (NY)
Morgan Stanley Investment Management (NY)
UBS Sales & Trading (Stamford)
Citigroup Structured Products (Hong Kong)
Hagin Investment Management (NY)
Constellation Energy Trading Desk (Baltimore)
Banco de México

Wendell Collins (Princeton)

 

[DHaynes]

From early reports, application to MFE programs this year has decreased across the board. The old adage "down market, back to school" may not hold true specially for programs that cost $50K/year or more with no proven placement record.

yay, less competition!:smt024

 

[doug reich]

I worked with someone who had been at Kaplan. He said in a down market they saw an immediately increased demand for GRE, GMAT, a 1-year lag for LSAT, an d a 2-year lag for MCAT. (Based on the turn-around time for getting all the prerequisites down). We are already 1-year into the down-cycle, so many of those getting re-educated applied to the current entering class.

There is also the obvious fact that some people have been listening to bbw (or other people who hold that opinion) and don't think there is a future here.

 

[Tigga]

Tigga, are these Spring applications that you are talking about?

I refer to programs that have their deadline in early Dec for the Fall admission.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Have any numbers? It'd be interesting to see the magnitude of the decrease.

Here is something Wendell from Princeton emailed me this morning.

We have received almost 600 applications this year, which is only slightly down from last year and significantly up from years before. Our job placement efforts are continuing full force, with students receiving job offers daily. We've had a record number of speakers from all areas of finance speak at the Bendheim Center for Finance this year, and I've also met with many new recruiting contacts this year in London, Hong Kong, Greenwich, Chicago, LA, Washington, Baltimore, and of course New York City, all on behalf of our program.


Wendell Collins
Director of Corporate Relations
Bendheim Center for Finance
Princeton University
609 258 9865
Bendheim Center for Finance - Bendheim Center for Finance - Princeton University

 

[buddyforall]

Its really surprising that Princeton can still manage 600 applications for 25 seats in such a market.Its down from 750 to 600.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

It's down from 650 last year. We still don't know how many offers and admits Princeton have this year.