importance of recommendation letters

[latency]

Hi,
I started emailing professors I knew for recommendation letters for MFE programs. I realized that since most of them don't have any time, they might simply write some generic letters for all the schools. I wanted to know if this plays an important role in the admission process. How important are recommendations compared to other factors such as relevant work experience, journal publications and GPA.
Thanks

 

[Anthony DeAngelis]

Everything I have read and experienced says that rec letters are nice, can be the deciding factor between two very close applicants, but are not the key to the admissions process. I would imagine for a MFE they would factor in even less because the skills the adcoms are looking at to predict success are pretty cut and dry. In a MBA program adcoms are going to want to see leadership, initiative, creativity, etc. All things that can be inferred from an essay and not a GMAT.

 

[Connor]

Recommendation letters are generally generic because unless the writer knows about a school or program or does research then their letter will be generic. But really they are talking about you and many schools are looking for the same basic things so generic works alright.

One possible strategy would be: Say Program A appears to value leadership skills (based on website literature, reviews, discussions, etc) and Program B values creativity. Then you ask your recommendation writer to highlight your leadership and creativity, allowing you to use the same letter for two programs.

 

[Stefan Zota]

Everything I have read and experienced says that rec letters are nice, can be the deciding factor between two very close applicants, but are not the key to the admissions process. I would imagine for a MFE they would factor in even less because the skills the adcoms are looking at to predict success are pretty cut and dry. In a MBA program adcoms are going to want to see leadership, initiative, creativity, etc. All things that can be inferred from an essay and not a GMAT.

In general, I would tend to disagree. Recommendation letters show some results/experience/research that cannot be included in a resume/statement of purpose. They are a confirmation that applicant worked with a professor/manager on something relevant for the desired degree.
Personally I think a smart student should "cultivate" a work/research relation with a couple of professors. After some years, a recommendation can make all the difference ...

I am sure Andy or other people with admission evaluation experience can provide more details.

 

[latency]

self recommendation letters

I was looking at the recommendation letters for CMU MSCF and it looked very specific. I dont know how it is for other universities. Also, I heard that some applicants from outside the US as well as some within the US write their own recommendation letters and get it signed by their managers/advisors. Isn't this unethical? Shouldn't universities be doing something about it?

In general, I would tend to disagree. Recommendation letters show some results/experience/research that cannot be included in a resume/statement of purpose. They are a confirmation that applicant worked with a professor/manager on something relevant for the desired degree.
Personally I think a smart student should "cultivate" a work/research relation with a couple of professors. After some years, a recommendation can make all the difference ...

I am sure Andy or other people with admission evaluation experience can provide more details.

 

[coolharvard]

I was looking at the recommendation letters for CMU MSCF and it looked very specific. I dont know how it is for other universities. Also, I heard that some applicants from outside the US as well as some within the US write their own recommendation letters and get it signed by their managers/advisors. Isn't this unethical? Shouldn't universities be doing something about it?

Yes. A lot of foreign applicants write their own letters and let advisors sign them. These letters are considered useless, unless whoever signs the letter is well known internationally.

http://prisms.cs.umass.edu/mcorner/cs-admissions

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Do the universities know about this practice? Yes they do.
Would these student-authored letters help? Unlikely. They often have the opposite effects.
a) For the professors who are too busy and don't care enough to let students use his good name, they wouldn't have much to say even if they write a letter themselves.
b) Students aren't pretty good at recommending themselves and if they are not good at English, the result can be amusingly bad.

Majority of these letters are useless in a sense that they add nothing of value to the application. People read thousand of these letters every year and they all sound the same: boring, generic. It is very easy to see when someone is spending time to write a passionate letter.

So, as an applicant, your job is to find people who can write GREAT letters for you. Picking the wrong recommender is one of the biggest mistakes that results in rejection.

 

[Yike Lu]

The question is... how can you compare two candidates?

GRE/GMAT is easy to compare... check! Better GRE/GMAT => higher chances. Sure, cultural/educational background will affect the English based writing and verbal sections, but the fact of the matter is that American universities teach in English so better English skills generally mean a better chance of success.

GPA? It gets fuzzy here as a "good" GPA can vary widely across different schools, different programs within a single school, and even within programs (depending on the courses chosen by the student). Ceteris paribus? Well all else is never equal when it comes to applications. Also, once you are already applying, GPA is largely out of your control.

So much for quantitative comparisons! What are we left with? Undergrad school brand (not under applicant's control at the time of application), statement of purpose, and recommendation letters.

Remember, an admissions committee is not a machine that takes in applications and spits out admissions decisions. They are composed of people, and people generally share a few key psychological traits:

1) They respond to emotional statements very strongly.
2) They trust your recommenders more than they trust you.
3) They like it when care is put into a piece of writing.

Your recommenders likely share a few traits as well:

1) They are busy.
2) If they agreed to write your recommendation, they genuinely want to help you.
3) As a direct corollary to (2), if you make it easy for them to write a good custom tailored (i.e. NOT generic) recommendation, they will be more than happy to do so.
4) Conversely, if you make it difficult for them to write a nice letter, they will not do so as a consequence of (1), even though they genuinely want to help.

The application of these propositions to writing statements of purpose and to obtaining useful recommendation letters is left as an exercise to the reader.

 

[latency]

it might be easier to write letters for mfe applicants because they are very specific (cmu's letter is an example). For mba applications on the other hand, I've heard applicants making up stories and getting their supervisors to copy that into the online recommendation form. I can see that this can be useful given that mba applicants have to show leadership skills etc and there is no way to verify this.
I wonder if mba admissions committees are aware of this practice, which in my mind is enough ground for dismissing a candidate and not letting him/her apply to any school.

The question is... how can you compare two candidates?

GRE/GMAT is easy to compare... check! Better GRE/GMAT => higher chances. Sure, cultural/educational background will affect the English based writing and verbal sections, but the fact of the matter is that American universities teach in English so better English skills generally mean a better chance of success.

GPA? It gets fuzzy here as a "good" GPA can vary widely across different schools, different programs within a single school, and even within programs (depending on the courses chosen by the student). Ceteris paribus? Well all else is never equal when it comes to applications. Also, once you are already applying, GPA is largely out of your control.

So much for quantitative comparisons! What are we left with? Undergrad school brand (not under applicant's control at the time of application), statement of purpose, and recommendation letters.

Remember, an admissions committee is not a machine that takes in applications and spits out admissions decisions. They are composed of people, and people generally share a few key psychological traits:

1) They respond to emotional statements very strongly.
2) They trust your recommenders more than they trust you.
3) They like it when care is put into a piece of writing.

Your recommenders likely share a few traits as well:

1) They are busy.
2) If they agreed to write your recommendation, they genuinely want to help you.
3) As a direct corollary to (2), if you make it easy for them to write a good custom tailored (i.e. NOT generic) recommendation, they will be more than happy to do so.
4) Conversely, if you make it difficult for them to write a nice letter, they will not do so as a consequence of (1), even though they genuinely want to help.

The application of these propositions to writing statements of purpose and to obtaining useful recommendation letters is left as an exercise to the reader.

 

[TraderJoe]

For a very large percentage of MBA applicants, the reference letters are written by the admissions consultants, signed by their managers / supervisors, and then forwarded to the schools. The essays are also written to a very large extent by the admissions consultants. The adcoms are fully aware of this practice and look the other way. Don't know whether it is a good sign (competitiveness) or a bad sign (dishonesty).

 

[coolharvard]

For a very large percentage of MBA applicants, the reference letters are written by the admissions consultants, signed by their managers / supervisors, and then forwarded to the schools. The essays are also written to a very large extent by the admissions consultants. The adcoms are fully aware of this practice and look the other way. Don't know whether it is a good sign (competitiveness) or a bad sign (dishonesty).

How would the adcom ppl tell if the essays and letters were written by admissions consultants? I mean, an experienced admissions consultant would make sure that everything in the letters and essays is matched to applicant's background and history, right?

 

[alain]

WTH is an "admissions consultant"?

 

[TraderJoe]

http://hbsguru.com/

 

[coolharvard]

http://hbsguru.com/

Who's willing to pay $600 for an essay? (If you are required to submit 2 essays in your app, then that's $1200).

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I was looking at the recommendation letters for CMU MSCF and it looked very specific. I dont know how it is for other universities. Also, I heard that some applicants from outside the US as well as some within the US write their own recommendation letters and get it signed by their managers/advisors. Isn't this unethical? Shouldn't universities be doing something about it?

NYU Math Fin spells out very clearly about this

The recommendation letter is not a character reference. Avoid writers who do not have first hand knowledge of your technical abilities. This includes deans or officials who have not had you in class, instructors in low level or nontechnical classes such as calculus, literature, accounting, etc., friends, relatives, and colleagues.

If someone asks you to write the letter yourself, refuse. The recommender may ask you for a resume or a transcript or even some things about yourself you would like to be in the letter. Feel free to provide such information, but under no circumstances should you suggest the actual wording of the letter. We disregard any letter that we feel was written by the applicant. A professional understands better than a student what information a recommendation letter should convey.