So i want to do a master's in financial economics after i graduate my 4 year finance/economics degree because quite simply i enjoy learning about economics and finance. However as part of my program i have to take a bunch of accounting courses and lately we have had some chartered accountants come in and talk about the job prospects for accounting. From what they said after you graduate you work for 3 years and you receive training at the same time then you have to pass your CA exam. Which means that you could be making 45-50k out of uni and you are probably going to get bumped to around 80k (from what they said the average was) once you get your CA designation. I also went to a accounting event organized by the uni and talked to some CA's. It seems like job prospects for accountants are much better than finance/econ majors from what ive heard from these people and also that these jobs are stable with great pay. So im wondering if my job prospects would be as good graduating with a master's degree in financial economics. I still got 2 years ahead of me and i can specialize in accounting if i want. If i do that i plan to get my CA and CFA as well. So im just wondering what would be the best decision to make and what your thoughts are.
Job prospects for MFE vs for CA
- Thread starter T.H.
- Start date
It really depends on what you want to do with the MFE or CA once you have them. I suppose you are looking for more than just stability and good earnings because you rarely get both in the Banking industry. Lol... (speaking from personal experience). Is there anything in particular that you want to do once you have the designation?
Hmm well if i was to get the ca and cfa designation i would like to go into banking i know rbc has a good training program for prospective ca's (toronto). From there i would just like to work my way up and basically work towards a career in the banking industry. With an mfe i would probably try to go into trading or some sort of ib job and again try to work make a good career. (I would get my cfa as well.) I do like econ better though so yeh those are the options that i have layed out for myself.
- Joined
- 2/7/08
- Messages
- 3,261
- Points
- 123
As far as I know, the chartered accountancy firms hire all sorts of grads they train as chartered accountants. You don't need an accounting degree to get hired as a trainee CA. In England they look -- or used to look -- at your A level grades, particularly your math grade, as these gave them a better idea of your chances of success at the CA exams than what you read at uni and the class of your degree.
This is a bit outside the realm of quant finance. The kind of people who become quants would go stark raving bonkers if they had to do accounting work and conversely, typical accountants don't have the brainpower for quant math and coding.
Chartered accountants are well-paid dullards. If pay and security are what you're after, go for it. The only note of apprehension on my part is I've heard the profession is over-saturated to the extent that the professional body (ICAEW) is thinking of making the exams more stringent. But then again, what profession these days is not saturated?
Yes you can go in from any degree, however at least in ontario from what i understood from some CA's i spoke too is that you need some prerequisite courses in order to qualify for CA. That means a lot of courses in financial accounting, auditing, taxation and finance and econ courses. Anyway i agree with you that they are well paid dullards, and that the nature of the work is boring but it seems like they have an easier time finding jobs than finance/econ major or even quant type majors. Basically I wouldve wasted a lot of time doing courses in econometrics/diffies/calc/stats and what not. The question is whether or not it's worth trading intellectually stimulating work for job security and good pay. However with you saying the market is oversaturated maybe the job prospects aren't as good as they appear.
I guess T.H. is from Canada and here, there are some sort of prerequisites (ie: courses taken) in order to get admission to a CA program. Since you still have 2 more years ahead, why don't you try to get some internships in both field and determine what is a better fit for you? I think big 5's summer analyst recruitment is over for this year already, so you may try CA firms such as big 4, BDO, or any local firms. You may have your own answer better than anyone's after 2 internships in 2 different fields.
I know a couple of people who worked at CA firms in the summer and they told me they really hated accounting after just 1 summer. In the other hand, I heard many people hate IB after working there. So yeah, the answer is on your own. Good luck
I know a couple of people who worked at CA firms in the summer and they told me they really hated accounting after just 1 summer. In the other hand, I heard many people hate IB after working there. So yeah, the answer is on your own. Good luck
I am pretty much sure that the CA market for Toronto is still quiet hot, based on the recruiting numbers of the last 2 years (I live and work in Toronto) However, if banking is want you want to go after, I dont think you need a CA to do it or in fact, I am not sure if CA would help you at all. Think of it this way, would you want to consider an Analyst role after you obtain your CA? You wouldn't or at least you shouldn't because banks usually hire analysts fresh out of undergrad and you will be seen as over qualified and if you want to apply for an Associate role, then you will be in direct competition with MBAs and well seasoned analysts who have already 2+ years of banking experience.
I am not sure if I heard you right (and please excuse me if I didn't), what you are thinking is to try to obtain an edge that will help you get into banking because you think it may be very difficult to try directly out of undergrad. I think the mentallity can be very dangerous because you are giving banks a reason to wonder why you didn't try it the first place when many of your peers did and succeeded. All the math, and stats courses you took will be valued greatly simply because less people tend to do well in them and if you can do what most people can't, banks will look at you very favorably.
Just a last few tips for you in terms of landing a banking interview:
1. Get Solid Grades (They love that... 3.8+
2. Know what DCF is.. (and I mean knowing it inside out)
3. Get to know a sport really well, because apparently, they are looking for someone who is smart and interesting...
I am not sure if I heard you right (and please excuse me if I didn't), what you are thinking is to try to obtain an edge that will help you get into banking because you think it may be very difficult to try directly out of undergrad. I think the mentallity can be very dangerous because you are giving banks a reason to wonder why you didn't try it the first place when many of your peers did and succeeded. All the math, and stats courses you took will be valued greatly simply because less people tend to do well in them and if you can do what most people can't, banks will look at you very favorably.
Just a last few tips for you in terms of landing a banking interview:
1. Get Solid Grades (They love that... 3.8+
2. Know what DCF is.. (and I mean knowing it inside out)
3. Get to know a sport really well, because apparently, they are looking for someone who is smart and interesting...
Thanks for the great replies guys ! Kamikade i think you are right, i didn't apply anywhere this summer because this summer i am helping some engineering phd students with a new business they are starting (they asked me to do the financial side of the business) and it's going to be a lot of work, also i am going to europe for at least a month and a half for family reasons so even if i did get the internship i wouldn't be able to work the full amount of time. Also my first year grades weren't great and my third semester was mediocre since i had bronchial pneumonia for almost half the semester so I am kind of reluctant to apply with not a great track record so far. How do you think they would look at a masters of financial economics? Would it also be looked as unfavourable? I would like to continue my studies in economics very much, would that be looked on as unfavourable by employers? And nelson i find it surprising that you say to get to know a sport very well. It happens that i used to play in the csl (soccer) and i still follow it very intensely. Also I am at Guelph university management economics and finance program. Have you guys heard of this program ? I am a bit worried that because Guelph isn't as big of a brand name like U of T it might hinder me from finding a job. I mainly choose the school because i just like the entire atmosphere here but now im thinking it might have been a bad move on my part.
Hey T.H,
It's not suprising at all as to why a candiate who knows a sport or two usually gets the thumbs-up. Just as students who are good at sports tend to be more popular in school, the banking industry is really no different. Also, people who play sports at a high level do tend to be more energetic and driven which are all valuable qualities for such a role, so it is absolutely fantastic that you have played at such a high level (be sure to highlight this in your resume).
By the way, U of T is not really known for IB as compared to schools like Laurier and (especially) Ivey (Western Ontario). Assuming it is I-Banking that you want to get into, than you probably should consider doing a transfer to Ivey (provided you have solid grades to do so). You may consider take an extra year in Guelph to strengthen your grades and then try and apply to Ivey (it is actually quiet popular for students to apply outside of Western during their 2nd and 3rd years and do a transfer.) This way, you will have a much bigger chance of getting into an Analyst position than with a CA or a MFE because neither really are intended for such roles.
It's not suprising at all as to why a candiate who knows a sport or two usually gets the thumbs-up. Just as students who are good at sports tend to be more popular in school, the banking industry is really no different. Also, people who play sports at a high level do tend to be more energetic and driven which are all valuable qualities for such a role, so it is absolutely fantastic that you have played at such a high level (be sure to highlight this in your resume).
By the way, U of T is not really known for IB as compared to schools like Laurier and (especially) Ivey (Western Ontario). Assuming it is I-Banking that you want to get into, than you probably should consider doing a transfer to Ivey (provided you have solid grades to do so). You may consider take an extra year in Guelph to strengthen your grades and then try and apply to Ivey (it is actually quiet popular for students to apply outside of Western during their 2nd and 3rd years and do a transfer.) This way, you will have a much bigger chance of getting into an Analyst position than with a CA or a MFE because neither really are intended for such roles.
That is very interesting about the sports thing i didn't think it was relevant at all but i guess il put it on my resume now. And i actually know a couple of people that applied from my program to ivey in their second year. They said tuition is ridiculously expensive though something around the range of 25000 dollars a year so i can't afford that and also id rather stay in guelph i like it better here. I have been up around western and the campus was just to big and spread out. Although the people seemed alright. So my chances will probably be a lot lower from guelph. I guess i'l stick out with my program then and aim for really high marks thanks for the replies guys ! they really did help.
thanks for the replies guys ! they really did help.If you really want to work in IB, you should consider Nelson's advice. All the big 5 recruit directly at Ivey, and almost all BB recruit directly there too. You can check there undergrad employment report here: http://www.ivey.uwo.ca/hba/career-planning/index.htm
I agree that Ivey's tuition is very high compared to other canadian commerce/business undergrad programs. I think you pay for what you get though. For example, a report from my school (I am a commerce student too) shows that low end for finance job is just 34k while it is 38k at Ivey. The high end shows a bigger difference: High end for accounting student at my school is 41k while it is 50k for Ivey. The difference is even more dramatic for finance related job. The mean salary for finance related job at my school is just 40k, well below what Ivey graduates make. You may consider the effect of standard living in different locations but employment report is very impressive compared to others.
I would say without any internship experience, you have almost zero chance of getting a summer internship in IB and obviously zero chance of getting full time position. Unless you are a 4.0/4.0, president of finance group, and you network like a ninja, it is extremely hard to get a position whether fulltime or internship in IB. So I would suggest you try to get an internship this summer, no matter it is 4 months or just 1 month, it is still better than having none. Or you may try to find a part time position at a finance or accounting firm while taking school. Since canadian market is not as big as the states, IB recruiment here is quite tougher due to a small number of positions.
Since you are not from target school (Ivey and Queens) you do not have a lot of chance of getting all interviews from all big 5 but I think if you keep your mark well above 3.5/4 coupe with your activities at school and a good resume, you should get an interview from TD. TD interview at least some students from non-target schools so you have to try your best to get an interview from them.
I agree that Ivey's tuition is very high compared to other canadian commerce/business undergrad programs. I think you pay for what you get though. For example, a report from my school (I am a commerce student too) shows that low end for finance job is just 34k while it is 38k at Ivey. The high end shows a bigger difference: High end for accounting student at my school is 41k while it is 50k for Ivey. The difference is even more dramatic for finance related job. The mean salary for finance related job at my school is just 40k, well below what Ivey graduates make. You may consider the effect of standard living in different locations but employment report is very impressive compared to others.
I would say without any internship experience, you have almost zero chance of getting a summer internship in IB and obviously zero chance of getting full time position. Unless you are a 4.0/4.0, president of finance group, and you network like a ninja, it is extremely hard to get a position whether fulltime or internship in IB. So I would suggest you try to get an internship this summer, no matter it is 4 months or just 1 month, it is still better than having none. Or you may try to find a part time position at a finance or accounting firm while taking school. Since canadian market is not as big as the states, IB recruiment here is quite tougher due to a small number of positions.
Since you are not from target school (Ivey and Queens) you do not have a lot of chance of getting all interviews from all big 5 but I think if you keep your mark well above 3.5/4 coupe with your activities at school and a good resume, you should get an interview from TD. TD interview at least some students from non-target schools so you have to try your best to get an interview from them.
Hmm so your saying that getting the summer internship is key. I know a couple of people in my program that were able to get good placement at rbc capital markets after their second and third year in the program. Also what activities are the most important ? Economics club? Finance club ? stuff like that ? I am not liking my chances so far haha.
Well actually I just checked the TD recruitment calendar and it seems like they don't recruit at Guelph http://www.tdsecurities.com/tds/resource/Summer-Calendar-2012.pdf?language=en_CA. So I am not sure if any bank recruits there, you should better check with career service center or try linkedin to find any alumni is in the business.
If students from your program got placements at RBC capital market, its great, you can ask them for advice or connect with them if they are still working there. For student activities, it is just to show that you have a passion for finance. Participating in a group, especially finance or econ, you have chance to network with your peers and probably with guest speaker. So the point is to learn more about the industry and networking.
I mentioned about work experience because I interviewed with 2 of the big 5 last year and one of them asked me for professional references before offering me the second interview in Toronto. So if you have an internship somewhere, you can easily have professional references. Also, without any work experience or leadership experience, what would you put on your resume? So yeah, if some guys at your school got in without work experience, they must have great gpa, or leadership experience or they had a bit of luck and aced their interview.
If students from your program got placements at RBC capital market, its great, you can ask them for advice or connect with them if they are still working there. For student activities, it is just to show that you have a passion for finance. Participating in a group, especially finance or econ, you have chance to network with your peers and probably with guest speaker. So the point is to learn more about the industry and networking.
I mentioned about work experience because I interviewed with 2 of the big 5 last year and one of them asked me for professional references before offering me the second interview in Toronto. So if you have an internship somewhere, you can easily have professional references. Also, without any work experience or leadership experience, what would you put on your resume? So yeah, if some guys at your school got in without work experience, they must have great gpa, or leadership experience or they had a bit of luck and aced their interview.
Well of the 3 people i knew, theyre graduating this year so a bit older than i am all of them had jobs at rbc capital markets after their second year. 1 guy had great marks lik a 3.8 gpa and he transferred to ivy after his second year but he had the first internship before that and now he signed with citigroup for when he finishes. The other 2 are doing their second internship at rbc and theyre coming back for their last semester next year. I asked them and they said they just applied online and thats how they got the job. I was kind of surprised since the other two had relatively average gpas. What uni did u attend kamikade ?
