# Baruch MFEmisrepresentation and fraud at BARUCH?

##### New Member
Hey guys

I was skimming through some numbers on enrollment and placement rate at Baruch CUNY. It seems kind of fishy...
if you go on to their website,
Graduation Date Graduates Placement Rate PhD/MS Did Not Look Low High Average
Dec'03-May'04 14 8 of 10 4 0
Dec'04-May'05 10 8 of 10 0 0
Dec'05-May'06 19 15 of 16 2 1
Dec'06-May'07 27 18 of 19 1 7
Dec'07 23 19 of 20 0 3

Fall 2002 58 25 43% 20 80% 11 & 9 6
Fall 2003 95 27 28% 14 52% 7 & 7 2
Fall 2004 132 48 36% 38 79% 16 & 22 8
Fall 2005 129 36 28% 26 72% 13 & 13 6
Fall 2006 184 42 23% 34 81% 15 & 19 9
Fall 2007 337 4814% 35 76% 19 & 16 13

So
last year 35 people enrolled in to the program and 23 people graduated? so...uhm... ok
in 2006 34 people enrolled and 27 graduates?
ok....
I strongly believe that universities should also follow the code of ethics... I am very disgusted!!!!

All this information is from their website

#### bhargav

##### Member
35 enrolled contain both Full time and Part time students. All the parttime students need not graduate in 1.5 years along with full time students as they take fewer courses than latter group.

Current students can comment on this

#### Muting

##### Member
Hey guys

I was skimming through some numbers on enrollment and placement rate at Baruch CUNY. It seems kind of fishy...
if you go on to their website,
Graduation Date Graduates Placement Rate PhD/MS Did Not Look Low High Average
Dec'03-May'04 14 8 of 10 4 0
Dec'04-May'05 10 8 of 10 0 0
Dec'05-May'06 19 15 of 16 2 1
Dec'06-May'07 27 18 of 19 1 7
Dec'07 23 19 of 20 0 3

Fall 2002 58 25 43% 20 80% 11 & 9 6
Fall 2003 95 27 28% 14 52% 7 & 7 2
Fall 2004 132 48 36% 38 79% 16 & 22 8
Fall 2005 129 36 28% 26 72% 13 & 13 6
Fall 2006 184 42 23% 34 81% 15 & 19 9
Fall 2007 337 4814% 35 76% 19 & 16 13

So
last year 35 people enrolled in to the program and 23 people graduated? so...uhm... ok
in 2006 34 people enrolled and 27 graduates?
ok....
I strongly believe that universities should also follow the code of ethics... I am very disgusted!!!!

Masters in Financial Engineering (MFE) - Baruch College
All this information is from their website
FYI:

The students enrolled in Fall 2007 will graduate earliest in 2008 Dec. I am from the fall 2007 cohort. Plus, it usually takes part-time students longer to graduate than full-time students. Full time students are expected to graduate in 3 semesters. The 27 graduates include all the international full time students and some part-time students. Some of part-time students from big banks are taking this as a good training opportunity as they don't have plan to change their current jobs.

#### Andy Nguyen

##### Member
Fraud is a very serious word that one should be careful with. It can backfire.

You got the numbers mixed up a bit but the biggest flaw in your attempt is that you assume all 34 students enrolled in Fall 2006 graduated at the same time in Dec 2007.
You assume that all of them are full-time students and take the same number of courses. THIS IS WRONG. We have part-time and full-time students and everyone taking different number of courses each semester. THEREFORE, FALL 2006 enrolled students graduated at different times, some graduated in Dec 2007, some graduated in May 2008 (like myself)

The same thing applies to other graduation classes.

Any more question we can answer you with? Something more serious?

I can understand that as Baruch gets more popular, some will try hard to discredit it but we have all the stats online for people to examine. I too believe universities should follow the code of ethics and Baruch is a very fine example of that.

This is a laughable attempt to pull this kind of stunt here and while amused I hope I have seen the last of it.

#### Nahed

##### Nahed
One word ==> Very Childish

#### dstefan

##### Baruch MFE Director
While the inflammatory tone of the post makes it undeserving of an answer, some corrections to your post need to be made.

Incidentally, the post might actually reflect the analytical skills of the poster well...

Aside from your confusion about full-time and part-time students, which should not have happened had you understood the admission numbers from Masters in Financial Engineering (MFE) - Baruch College, you also assumed that everyone who enrolls in the program completes it. While that might be true at other programs, we have a 15-20% attrition rate among our students.

I just spent 5 minutes of my time going over this matter. It would be great if this were billable time.

#### dstefan

##### Baruch MFE Director
There is a saying in the country I am coming from, that It takes one fool to throw a pebble in a lake, and one hundred wise men to take it out". (This is the saying, no offense should be taken.)

I would like to suggest that people related to the Baruch MFE program refrain from further comment at least until the initiator of this post posts again.

Then again, (s)he could be so disgusted as to not care about the pebble at all.

#### luso

##### Member
It may not be your fault for not obtaining adequate analytical skills from Stanford, but doing something to embarrass such a respectful institute is definitely your fault.

"Nomina stultorum parietibus haerent!" will be the best for you.

#### Sachin

##### New Member
There is a saying in the country I am coming from, that It takes one fool to throw a pebble in a lake, and one hundred wise men to take it out".
Prof Dan, it is a great quote.. will be etched in my memory.

#### Yan He

##### Member
As one of 2006 Fall students, I finished the program in 1.5 years, while over a dozen of my classmates are still being "tortured" working full-time and doing school part-time. If anyone doubts about the number of admitted/graduated, I can list the names of those who graduated (if they don't mind). Truth doesn't need to speak loud!

I don't want to say anything using strong words like "fishy" or "disgusting" about Stanford. It's a great school, and one mindless grad won't be able to represent the reputation of the school.
Baruch MFE is gaining it's recognition /reputation because of the hard-working and excellency of its students & staffs ---- it's really impressive for a young program! We do need to attract more strong applicants and attention of potential employers, but not necessary with "fault" numbers.

Really feel lucky that I have the opportunity to get the training from Baruch MFE program, which helps me to step into the world of financial engineering.

Stanford Grad, please think before you speak And if you have any question, feel free to post here, I will be happy to answer if I can.

#### Osman Abi

##### New Member
There is a saying in the country I am coming from, that It takes one fool to throw a pebble in a lake, and one hundred wise men to take it out". (This is the saying, no offense should be taken.)
Professor Stefan, you don't happen to be Turkish do you?

#### alain

##### Older and Wiser
the person using the id "Stanford Grad" might not be a graduate from Stanford so let's not assume anything.

#### alain

##### Older and Wiser
Professor Stefan, you don't happen to be Turkish do you?
does it matter?

#### dstefan

##### Baruch MFE Director
I am not Turkish, but now I know the saying exists in Turkey as well

#### DominiConnor

This thread does throw up exactly why my firm has not got into publishing a formal list of the relative quality of MFE programs.
I don't think Baruch is being misleading, but it is possible to be misled if you compare the stats directly with another school that happens to use a different basis. To the best of my knowledge there is no standardisation in this area.

In theory, this should be someone's PhD thesis, I see a steady stream on real option theory, where one models the effect of making a decision now or delaying it later.

Devising a methodology and normalising the data is tough enough to deserve an econ PhD.

But...
Almost everywhere that does good PhDs also has a MFE program, and I see two possible results.
1) A Berkeley study says Berkeley is best for finance. or

2) A Berkeley study shows that other places are better than Berkeley.

Hard to see that one flying.

#### Eddie

##### Member
While the inflammatory tone of the post makes it undeserving of an answer, some corrections to your post need to be made.

Incidentally, the post might actually reflect the analytical skills of the poster well...

Aside from your confusion about full-time and part-time students, which should not have happened had you understood the admission numbers from Masters in Financial Engineering (MFE) - Baruch College, you also assumed that everyone who enrolls in the program completes it. While that might be true at other programs, we have a 15-20% attrition rate among our students.

I just spent 5 minutes of my time going over this matter. It would be great if this were billable time.
There's a level of cleverness called "SMART";
There's another level of cleverness called "WISDOM";
And I'm deeply impressed.:prayer:

This initial post reminds me of Prof Sylvain's anecdote that "A tree falls into a forest, does it make a sound..."

Also, Andy eagle, maybe it is a good idea we ask for the address of members on our forum during registration, so Dan can send a bill next time, hahahaha, jk. But, that was really a good one=D>

#### DominiConnor

Actually of course, the question "if a tree falls in an uninhabited forest does it make a sound ?" is badly posed.
It should be "how do unobserved data in the lumber market affect my hedging ?"

#### charlesdwright

##### Member
Sometimes the guy in the Maserati underestimates what's under the hood (and behind the wheel) of the Ford.

#### Sanket Patel

##### i do stuff
Sometimes the guy in the Maserati underestimates what's under the hood (and behind the wheel) of the Ford.
That's a brilliant analogy.