quant atmosphere

[word]

I'm considering moving from academia to career as a quant, but may not want to work 60+ hours/week and have an a**hole boss yelling at me every second.

Perhaps some of you quants can fill me in into what it's really like working as a one.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

It's probably exactly what you just described "work 60+ hours/week and have an a**hole boss yelling at me every second. "
I think the transition for academia people is specially tough since you move from an environment where intellectual knowledge is respected to a place where the ability to make money is king. To be fair, intellectual knowledge is respected in finance too, but not as much as making money. Everything in finance is about making money, P&L generating.
That means you need to leave your ego at the door. That means people higher up in the food chain may have a few degrees less than you. That means you will be managed by some kids who just graduated from some MBA program and have no clue what he talks about.
There are office politics to be played in academia and so is in finance. Some will be shocked so a reality check is needed before you head down this path.

Oh, a very thick skin is essential.

 

[alain]

I'm considering moving from academia to career as a quant, but may not want to work 60+ hours/week and have an a**hole boss yelling at me every second.

STOP considering moving, stay in Academia.

 

[word]

do you guys really spend an average of 60+ hours/week in the office?? What time do you normally arrive/leave work?

Dropping my ego and having an recent MBA grad tell me what to do is one thing, but after my 1st year of grad school, I kind of like waking up late, having hour long lunches, not having to work to spend 12 hrs/day in an office(heck, I can work at home or a coffee shop). At the same time, finance is kind of cool, living in NYC would be awesome....guess you can't have it all...

 

[Andy Nguyen]

You can have long lunch, leave at 5PM, not having to work 12 hours a day if you are ok in a mid office, back office IT role.
Just to make sure, we all strive to be in front office, P&L generating roles, right?
You will eat at your desk. You can't have long lunch unless you are a senior manager meeting clients. You can work from home at night and weekends in addition to your normal hours.
Working hours vary from place to place. Some of my friends at other firms got to work by 7:30AM. I work different hours but I got off work around 8PM. 10 hours a day minimum is a sure bet.
Maybe lifestyle in academia is not bad after all.

 

[bigbadwolf]

At the same time, finance is kind of cool, living in NYC would be awesome....

Where'd you get that idea? Watching Oliver Stone's movie Wall Street? Many are called, few are chosen. And the few who are chosen have to slog their asses off.

 

[word]

No...I lived in NYC for 7 months (working 40 hrs/week on my feet all day at Starbucks, sometimes working 13 hour days that started at 6am...so I've worked hard before...), loved it, and after moving to Austin and living there fore 8 months, I still miss the city. I also pay attention to what's going on in the financial industry, and find it interesting.

"Many are called, few are chosen. And the few who are chosen have to slog their asses off."

Not sure why you included this.... It seems to imply that I thought a job as a quant would be a breeze. I just wanted to know what the atmosphere is like (working hard is not synonymous with spending 12+ hrs. in an office per day) I also don't see how academia is any different...in fact there are thousands upon thousands of students who aspire to be mathematicians in academia, yet fail(Isn't this why the infamous Derman went into finance, i.e. the prospects of really succeeding in academia seemed dismal?). A Ph.d in math is no easy work, and successful grad students/mathematicians also work their asses of. (no, you weren't implying academia isn't competitive, but I still felt obliged to say this.)

 

[Poomrang]

Stress in quant jobs

Being close to the front office make lot of quants work under pression. What are the conditions of work for quants ? Do they support the same amount of stress as traders ?

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Incidentally, I read an article on NYT last night and I think it's really relevant to the discussion here.

Dr. Cass and other psychologists and researchers who have worked with Wall Street employees say that these workers — often drawn to the intensity and volatility of their profession — are more prone to anxiety, depression, substance abuse and other mental stresses than the general population. They drive themselves hard. Working 10, 12, 14 hours a day is not only expected; it is also a badge of honor.
In some ways, these experts say, Wall Street types are perhaps better prepared to handle the shock of sudden change than those in more stable professions. But because they are typically measured by the size of their paycheck — bonuses, in particular — their self-worth is deeply threatened when the money evaporates.
“We’re talking about individuals who base their identities and egos on what they do for a living and how much they make,” Dr. Cass said.
Yet Wall Street is also a macho, “don’t let them see you sweat” world where showing self-doubt and weakness, whether to clients or co-workers, is about as welcome as a stock whose value is taking a nosedive.

He said he was sometimes irked by news media coverage that described the layoffs as shocking and devastating.
“If you went to school and you studied this industry and you studied economic cycles, why are you now surprised that this is happening?” he said. “It’s like going into politics and saying, ‘I didn’t know I could be voted out of office.’ ”

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/25/business/25pain.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

 

[Poomrang]

Incidentally, I read an article on NYT last night and I think it's really relevant to the discussion here.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/25/business/25pain.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

People who depress are generally predisposed. People who know how to manage and organize their life, would almost certainly remain firm even in the most difficult situations

 

[cofibreak]

That is so true. I would be interested in knowing how to get into the minds of people who are depressed and help strengthen their inner self. The entire community would stand to benefit.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

That sounds like a good idea. Why hasn't Wall Street done this?
Instead of shutting down the whole dept, banks should have shrinks evaluating each employee to see if their are emotionally sound. The strong one would be kept employed.

 

[cofibreak]

It is also known, that when the organization is in trouble, the best employees leave first. These are the ones who are always on top of the most difficult circumstances.

 

[VladimirBunicu]

That is so true. I would be interested in knowing how to get into the minds of people who are depressed and help strengthen their inner self. The entire community would stand to benefit.

Industrial psychology has a whole subdivision concerned with people who have lost jobs; as in risk management, the importance of proactive solutions is being emphasized. Getting into depressed people's mind is not easy, since the depressed person gets obsessed with certain issue (mainly, the pity for their selves), and becomes blind and deaf to the outer world (and treatment). It is hard for depressed person to be forward looking.
In the case of loosing a job, especially such demanding job as in Ibanking, the issue is not only loosing salary and job security. Salary comes and goes; job security, no matter how badly people would like to believe in it, has never been more real than a unicorn.
The significance of job is elevated big time in the U.S. A person is associated with it; the first question people ask each other upon acquaintance is usually, "What do you do?" or "What is your profession?"
As in portfolio theory, many psychologists recommend to balance out, by diversifying the significance between different aspects of one's life, such as friends, family, hobbies/interests, sports/health, etc.
Another point, backed by philosophy of risk management, is known as "Furu vs. Cockroach paradox." Furus are species of fish, who sophisticatedly optimizes its nature and accommodates perfectly to one particular environment. If the environment changes even slightly, the species will extinct. The cockroach, however, is much less optimized to perform in any particular environment, and uses primitive method to accommodate - it runs from wind. However, it managed to survive as a species for hundreds of thousands of years. What I want to say here, one will be amazed with the ability of people's psyche to accommodate to any environment! Loosing a particular status or way of lifestyle does not mean loosing a status or lifestyle; it simply means adopting another status or lifestyle. Loosing friends because of loosing job means that these people were tied to your position, status, or money, but not to you as a person.
YOU ARE NOT YOUR JOB