Rutgers MSMF Rutgers MSMF or Stevens Institute MFE?

[Andy Nguyen]

Oh, you are a part-timer. There will be a long wait for the decision. In past years, it's around Aug.
Time to make a decision with what you have in hand.

 

[the_knack_of_flying]

Hi All, I'm new to quantnet and have recieved calls from Rutgers MSMF and UNCC MSMF. Which one to choose ? Besides how to get exact fee and payment schedule details, as I need them to apply for education loan.

 

[Abdel]

A question a little out of topic, is MFE the best program to go into risk management?

 

[shrivk]

I finally got response from NYU - an admit as non-degree candidate....!! I am in total dilemma now. Shud I accept this admission or go to Stevens Institute Of Technology where I got part-time admission as degree candidate.

 

[didje]

What is teh difference between a degree candidate and a non-degree candidate ? Stevens looks good.

 

[shrivk]

Non-Degree candidate won't get any degree...It's more or less like a certificate...Though NYU has good brand name , a degree from Stevens shud be worth it..

 

[Andy Nguyen]

I finally got response from NYU - an admit as non-degree candidate....!! I am in total dilemma now. Shud I accept this admission or go to Stevens Institute Of Technology where I got part-time admission as degree candidate.

Are you ok with the idea of not getting a master degree and no career support while paying the same tuition? You can only list the courses and hustle your way for a job using whatever means you get there.
Keep in mind that many jobs would actually require that you obtain a Master degree.

There is little known about Stevens MFE career services, and the program in general so I don't know the choice is that clear.

 

[didje]

There is little known about Stevens MFE career services, and the program in general so I don't know the choice is that clear.

I agree. People at Stevens need to re-up the way they promote their program. I'm sure it's not that bad, giving their curriculum and success in the engineering field.

 

[Dwsmith]

Out of curiosity, if you go as a non-degree to NYU, do you have the option to switch to degree seeking if your performance is up to par? If so, I would go as non-degree and deliver academic wise.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Out of curiosity, if you go as a non-degree to NYU, do you have the option to switch to degree seeking if your performance is up to par? If so, I would go as non-degree and deliver academic wise.

They are aware of such potential backdoors so the answer is no, just like you can't apply as PT student and later convert to FT.

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

Put it this way: every single MFE aside from like the top 10 in the country are simply a mish-mosh and retooling of existing courses from other departments with a year of Shreve thrown in and maybe some "get some third-rate employee out of a megafirm to dawdle and teach some tangentially related project course", and in turn, these programs charge thousands of dollars extra per semester when a student in a program with significant overlap can do just as well for themselves.

So unless you're going to Columbia/Berkeley/Baruch/Princeton/Stanford/MIT/NYU/UofC (not sure it has a quant program, since any engineer out of there with some financial background is about as good a quant as you'll get) or one of those other highly ranked programs, caveat emptor.

For instance, in Rutgers's MSMF, their one C++ course covers the basics through linked lists. You want to be as good a quant programmer as anybody out of a non-top 10 MFE? Easy. Download Savitch's Absolute C++, get Duffy's intro to C++ for FEs, and if that's not enough yet, do some problems on ProjectEuler.net.

Want the math background that the quants have? Any MS in operations research/management science/statistics/applied math and you're more or less good to go. Anything finance related you can learn on the job--and odds are, you probably won't even realize you're picking up finance because it'll all be numbers and strings and vectors and matrices to you anyway.

Of course, once again, this doesn't apply to top 10 programs that have directors (or firm managers EG Sylvain Raynes) come in and teach their specialty just because they like to teach and placing you directly into fantastic job opportunities for crazy good pay, but all of the other "quant" programs are nothing more than cash cows, with tons of bullshit for whatever gems of courses there are.

 

[didje]

Of course, once again, this doesn't apply to top 10 programs that have directors (or firm managers EG Sylvain Raynes) come in and teach their specialty just because they like to teach and placing you directly into fantastic job opportunities for crazy good pay, but all of the other "quant" programs are nothing more than cash cows, with tons of bullshit for whatever gems of courses there are.

So you think that people coming from the other programs can't be as good as people coming from Baruch/Columbia/etc... ?

I don't agree with that. You always have people with tremendous skills hidden in little known programs, getting good job in a little known company first and then have a pretty successful career. When you go to top programs, you basically pay for the opportunity to have internships at Goldman&Sachs or JPM. That doesn't mean that you are "better". You can go toRutgers/Stevens/FloridaState and finally become more successful than a guy from Princeton.

PS : Excuse my english

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

So you think that people coming from the other programs can't be as good as people coming from Baruch/Columbia/etc... ?

I don't agree with that. You always have people with tremendous skills hidden in little known programs, getting good job in a little known company first and then have a pretty successful career. When you go to top programs, you basically pay for the opportunity to have internships at Goldman&Sachs or JPM. That doesn't mean that you are "better". You can go toRutgers/Stevens/FloridaState and finally become more successful than a guy from Princeton.

PS : Excuse my english

Your statement is painfully obvious. Of course it's possible. It's also possible for a kid that grew up in inner-city Newark, NJ to go to an ivy-league college. I'd think someone on a quant forum would understand that while it's possible, it's far less probable. Sure, you *can* have someone be scrappy, work inordinate hours for low pay on a wing and a hope and some gratitude, learn more stuff, add value, yadda yadda.

Sure, they can rise to the top.

But they're far less likely to. Mostly because any program except the ones in the top 10 are steaming stinking noxious piles of crap. I mean heck, I took a time series course at Rutgers that the MSMFs had to, and it didn't even cover cointegration!

 

[didje]

Your statement is painfully obvious. Of course it's possible. It's also possible for a kid that grew up in inner-city Newark, NJ to go to an ivy-league college. I'd think someone on a quant forum would understand that while it's possible, it's far less probable. Sure, you *can* have someone be scrappy, work inordinate hours for low pay on a wing and a hope and some gratitude, learn more stuff, add value, yadda yadda.

Sure, they can rise to the top.

But they're far less likely to. Mostly because any program except the ones in the top 10 are steaming stinking noxious piles of crap. I mean heck, I took a time series course at Rutgers that the MSMFs had to, and it didn't even cover cointegration!

I totally understand it ! But right here, right now, one of our fellow forum member asked us to help him choose between on of those programs : Rutgers and Stevens (which didn't make your list of top 10 programs). So I don't think that this is good to tell him something like "whatever the program you choose, it's garbage so don't even bother". I mean, this is the way I undertandood your response, this is why I said what I said.

Correct me if I'm wrong

 

[Joe Ross]

Depending on which ranking you are looking at, Rutgers is a top 10 program.

 

[Ohad]

Your statement is painfully obvious. Of course it's possible. It's also possible for a kid that grew up in inner-city Newark, NJ to go to an ivy-league college. I'd think someone on a quant forum would understand that while it's possible, it's far less probable. Sure, you *can* have someone be scrappy, work inordinate hours for low pay on a wing and a hope and some gratitude, learn more stuff, add value, yadda yadda.

Sure, they can rise to the top.

But they're far less likely to. Mostly because any program except the ones in the top 10 are steaming stinking noxious piles of crap. I mean heck, I took a time series course at Rutgers that the MSMFs had to, and it didn't even cover cointegration!

You seem to mesh together two completely different things, the students and the program.
You can find amazing human resources from every program, I do agree that on average they would be better in the Ivy league programs.

 

[Joe Ross]

Put it this way: every single MFE aside from like the top 10 in the country are simply a mish-mosh and retooling of existing courses from other departments with a year of Shreve thrown in and maybe some "get some third-rate employee out of a megafirm to dawdle and teach some tangentially related project course", and in turn, these programs charge thousands of dollars extra per semester when a student in a program with significant overlap can do just as well for themselves.

So unless you're going to Columbia/Berkeley/Baruch/Princeton/Stanford/MIT/NYU/UofC (not sure it has a quant program, since any engineer out of there with some financial background is about as good a quant as you'll get) or one of those other highly ranked programs, caveat emptor.

For instance, in Rutgers's MSMF, their one C++ course covers the basics through linked lists. You want to be as good a quant programmer as anybody out of a non-top 10 MFE? Easy. Download Savitch's Absolute C++, get Duffy's intro to C++ for FEs, and if that's not enough yet, do some problems on ProjectEuler.net.

Want the math background that the quants have? Any MS in operations research/management science/statistics/applied math and you're more or less good to go. Anything finance related you can learn on the job--and odds are, you probably won't even realize you're picking up finance because it'll all be numbers and strings and vectors and matrices to you anyway.

Of course, once again, this doesn't apply to top 10 programs that have directors (or firm managers EG Sylvain Raynes) come in and teach their specialty just because they like to teach and placing you directly into fantastic job opportunities for crazy good pay, but all of the other "quant" programs are nothing more than cash cows, with tons of bullshit for whatever gems of courses there are.

So what are you doing now? From the thread below it looks like there was some difficulty finding "fantastic job opportunities" from Baruch.

http://www.quantnet.com/forum/threads/salary-history.6929/

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

I didn't go to Baruch. I have an MS in stats from Rutgers hence I'm familiar with the quality of their MSMF program to an extent due to the significant overlap. And in fact, what I'm most concerned about is if I get an offer when a better opportunity can arise in the future. The two I'm currently most interested in are not formalized yet.

I'm not exactly worried about my future prospects--it's more a question of when, not if, and the when seems to be coming soon.

 

[Joe Ross]

Sorry for the confusion. The post I linked had you referencing Baruch salaries so I just surmised you went to Baruch.

However, I don't think it is prudent to make generalized statements about all MFE programs if you haven't attended one of the MFE programs that you mention/denigrate.

 

[shrivk]

Thanks guys for all the advice...I agree wih Didje::

"I don't agree with that. You always have people with tremendous skills hidden in little known programs, getting good job in a little known company first and then have a pretty successful career. When you go to top programs, you basically pay for the opportunity to have internships at Goldman&Sachs or JPM. That doesn't mean that you are "better". You can go toRutgers/Stevens/FloridaState and finally become more successful than a guy from Princeton."

I am already working in the industry and know lot of people so i don't think it should matter if I join Stevens. It's afterall tier 2 and a good Technology university. Paying 10-20 grand to learn few courses would be much better to get a degree from a college.

on a side note : Didje - where did u get your picture from...