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Slump Sinks H1-B Visa Program

Oh yes I did. Every single penny came out of my pocket.
So you paid all of the money back to your school's alumni who helped reduce your tuition bill with their generous donations?

Again, unless you went to a for-profit institution, this is like someone who lives in subsidized housing claiming they paid full rent.
 
Don't we have enough trouble filling jobs in the hard sciences and engineering as it is? Don't the politicians claim that the US is losing its edge in the sciences? This is the fix.

Really? Which jobs? You mean the ones at places like Google? I don't think Google or any of the other glamorous engineering firms are having any trouble. It's the places that can't pay the expected rates that do.

Aka the ones that, even after a doctorate, pay some token low six figures, leading you to becoming a cog in a giant machine in which you're paid a token sum and life is "comfortable" so long as you get up for work at 7:30 AM and only start to unwind at 6:30 PM, with only two weeks of vacation every year, for the next thirty five years of your life?

I'll tell you a couple of reasons why have trouble filling engineering and science jobs:

1) Because Wall Street wants these same engineers and scientists more, and are willing to pay for them (mainly because it can like nobody else). Would you rather receive a massive cash bonus from a bulge bracket or a hedge fund, or stock options from a startup which could very easily go bust, for putting in the same hours? (Or simply be a cog in a large machine, completely out of control of your own destiny, but I'm not even considering this!)

2) Because engineering and science job prospects (with a very select few exceptions, like Google and perhaps MSFT) #$*&ing suck! Think about this. You work your 9 to 5 for the rest of your adult life making middle class salaries, watching your kids get saddled with student loans and living a ho-hum existence until you're old and gray and your spouse is saggy and your body is breaking down from the inside.

Retirement--because you've given so much of yourself to the company that you don't have anything left we can use.

Sound like something that gives you the willies? This is what I'd call failure, and I'd consider it hell on Earth.

3) Because of increased competition. Why should Americans have to study their @sses off in a grueling engineering major when they'll have to compete with foreigners with stronger work ethics, more intellectual purity, better primary schooling systems, and all for less upside? And if you thought it was tough in undergrads, wait until you see the grad courses! (Interestingly enough, I must be oblivious to this fact because I naively think that my hard work alone can carry me through to better performances than other people...so far, though, it's been working)

4) Because innovation for innovation's sake gets you the Dotcom burst of 2000. At Lehigh, there was a course mandatory for all IEORs to take called Engineering Economy, whose overarching concept was this: the only good engineering is the profitable kind. So now that FE came along, who needs to engineer a product? Why not go and skip straight to the money?

If we're to make engineering more attractive, we can't just make the work more attractive, but the lifestyle that comes as its reward more attractive, and make it easier to get there (read: quota in universities for American students pursuing engineering/hard science...they're next to nonexistent as it stands...there can be all sorts of minority quotas and foreigner quotas, yet none for Americans themselves...hah!). And so long as companies are willing to hire foreign engineers by the dozen in their foreign headquarters (or sponsor their H-1Bs), they have no reason to overpay for intellectual talent here in the states. So, the only people who are willing to pay for the brainpower (Wall Street, Google, other big tech firms) get it in spades.
 
My view is that if you get an engineering, science, or math graduate degree from a US school, you should be REQUIRED to stay and work here for a certain period of time.

Although I hope one day the balance will tip the other way but I consume daily more resources, tangible or intangible, on this earth than I produce. I take more than I give. Your view is certainly admirable and appreciated. However, the word "REQUIRED" is too strong. Graduates should not be "REQUIRED" to contribute and pay their "debts" to society immediately, if at all. It's a personal choice and everyone should have the freedom to decide for themselves.
 
All fresh graduates are pretty much worthless as professionals. Only real experience makes them professionals in their fields. "Forcing" someone to stay after study and work is doing a favor for a newly graduate. At least for the fist 2-5 years.

And what you going to do if nobody wants to hire such a graduate, but he/she is required to stay and work. This is just absurd.

Most of the talented people will be picked up by companies and offered things which will never be available in their home countries. The rest will go home. This is a free market and it drives American economy.
 
All fresh graduates are pretty much worthless as professionals. Only real experience makes them professionals in their fields. "Forcing" someone to stay after study and work is doing a favor for a newly graduate. At least for the fist 2-5 years.
In IT, the term is typically 12-18 months before the company breaks even on you.

And what you going to do if nobody wants to hire such a graduate, but he/she is required to stay and work. This is just absurd.
Go work for a nonprofit.

Most of the talented people will be picked up by companies and offered things which will never be available in their home countries. The rest will go home. This is a free market and it drives American economy.
Actually, most of them can't even get work visas right now.
 
Nonprofit means that the goal of a company not to generate profits. It doesn't mean that they are going to hire someone who they don't need just for charity.

Most can't get visas because market is very dry now. Nobody promises to give away jobs upon graduation.
 
All fresh graduates are pretty much worthless as professionals. Only real experience makes them professionals in their fields. "Forcing" someone to stay after study and work is doing a favor for a newly graduate. At least for the fist 2-5 years.

And what you going to do if nobody wants to hire such a graduate, but he/she is required to stay and work. This is just absurd.

Most of the talented people will be picked up by companies and offered things which will never be available in their home countries. The rest will go home. This is a free market and it drives American economy.

As Alain said, this is a free country. You cannot force people to stay in the States after graduation. You can offer them good conditions and they might stay, the whole discussion in this thread. If you make a difficult/random path (e.g. visa) then they might leave.

I agree with you this is not an immediate loss. Wait 5 years, perhaps even 10. For example, you will see that you need 100k programmers but you can only find 20k. So, what do you do in 10 years?

One solution is to try to recruit directly from abroad. It will be costly and risky to bring foreign experienced hires. The numbers will also be small, harder for people to relocate after they worked for some years, family, kids. Overall higher costs.

Another solution is to try to train people from the States. But wait a minute, it is a free country. What if many college kids don't want to be developers? You would have to offer higher wages and benefits and even then you simply don't have sufficient people to be #1 in specific field.

Another solution is to re-direct to other areas. If we cannot recruit developers, then we just move to car manufacturing. This may work in an exceptional crisis, but #1 economy should be able to focus its resources in most lucrative directions. If you are restricted by lack of skilled work-force, then it is impossible.

One last solution is to outsource. This works temporarily, perhaps for a few years, however in long term you still lose. Nobody is preventing the prospective developers that left U.S. after graduation to start new companies. After all, outsourced wages are low, so there is a high turn-around.

So now, perhaps the "worthless" recent graduates would have been useful. Very difficult to get them back.

Technology is a good example because it is very dynamic. In 5 years, you can go from 100k revenue to 100 million. Each country has such examples.
This trend has started to develop in last 5 years. For instance fewer Eastern Europeans are coming to the States compared to immediately after '89. Now they have other options and this whole process is not helping ...
 
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