Take unsupported Stony Brook Quantitative Finance PhD position ?

[atreides]

Read the wsj article about the med student with about half a million in debt..Thought it was funny when the collection agency started calling her dad's neighbors to complain she wasn't making her payments

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Albert Einstein once called compounding interest "the most powerful force in the universe."
I know for a fact that a large number of applicants to MFE programs take out huge loans and they overestimate their future earning and at the same time underestimate the difficulty of paying off student loan.

It's a reality check and Ilya is tip toeing very close to the subject of that thread.

 

[alain]

So, I read the whole thread and, as usual, here is my opinion... STOP CRYING AND BITCHING!!! Be assertive, make a decision. Don't put the responsibility of your future in somebody else's hands.

First and foremost... WTH do you want to do?

Since you started posting on this forum, you always said that you wanted to work for RenTec. Now you have a chance to get closer to the source and you are whining because you can't afford it. "If there is a will, there is a way" so, if you really want it, you will find a way to pay for it, either get a job that you don't like, flip burgers, clean toilets, what have you... but you will take responsibility. The last resort would be to ask for more loans and get further into debt. Well, there will be a time when you will be able to pay for it.

If the debt burden is too much, you will stop the complaining and figure out a way to get a job, pay your debt and try to become good enough that one of this places you keep talking about give you a chance to work for them.

Also, I don't think the job market is as bad as you paint it. Good people always find jobs. As I posted before regarding your job hunt, either you are aiming too high in your job search or you are bombing the interview for some hidden reason (you will need feedback), or you are not that good or as good as you think you are (which is even worse) and you need to find out how to cover those shortcomings.

I'm sorry if I'm too blunt again.

 

[bigbadwolf]

A Future History PhD, and the Debt Issue

Check this out. It might give some insight. Here is a thread from The Chronicle that gives a lot of advice from faculty about doing a PhD without funding (the general message: don't do it). The OP was admittedly in humanities, where the job market is abysmal and pay is low; however, there is some insight on there that I think applies to anyone wanting to do a PhD.
.

There's an army of Ph.D. lumpenproletariat out there -- mostly in the humanities. People seemingly are just not psychologically adjusting to a job market that has been dismal now for decades.

The only reason to take on more expense for an unfunded program is if you know that you'll get a decent job at the end of it, or at least that the odds are good. That's why people are willing to pay heavily for the top MFE programs. But an unfunded Ph.D. usually means the department accepting you doesn't have a high opinion of you or your completion chances. It's a sucker bet.

 

[Joy Pathak]

There's an army of Ph.D. lumpenproletariat out there -- mostly in the humanities. People seemingly are just not psychologically adjusting to a job market that has been dismal now for decades.

The only reason to take on more expense for an unfunded program is if you know that you'll get a decent job at the end of it, or at least that the odds are good. That's why people are willing to pay heavily for the top MFE programs. But an unfunded Ph.D. usually means the department accepting you doesn't have a high opinion of you or your completion chances. It's a sucker bet.

I do agree with that. It all depends on the job you get after but I mean, a 100K+ loan is still just brutal. Mine will be around 70K and I am already getting nervous. I am a Canadian citizen so in terms of job prospects I have a bit of an advantage and worse comes to worse I can go back to Canada and get a job.

But I think for a PhD to pay out of your pocket would just be too much of a stretch. At the same time, if you do believe you have what it takes and think you can be successfull out of the program and get those publications then it might be worth it to pay. The adcom must have underestimated you. Maybe his research potential is a lot stronger than his application shows.

It really is difficult to say. It is a very tough decision to pick an unfunded PhD. I think the best call might be to get "whatever" job, whether it's selling phone plans at Telus at the Mall or McDonalds. Do that to start paying a bit of the debt off, and then apply to several PhD program for the upcoming season. He has a high GPA he said. I am sure he will get in other places with his GPA and Masters with funding.

 

[Stefan Zota]

So, I read the whole thread and, as usual, here is my opinion... STOP CRYING AND BITCHING!!! Be assertive, make a decision. Don't put the responsibility of your future in somebody else's hands.

First and foremost... WTH do you want to do?

Since you started posting on this forum, you always said that you wanted to work for RenTec. Now you have a chance to get closer to the source and you are whining because you can't afford it. "If there is a will, there is a way" so, if you really want it, you will find a way to pay for it, either get a job that you don't like, flip burgers, clean toilets, what have you... but you will take responsibility. The last resort would be to ask for more loans and get further into debt. Well, there will be a time when you will be able to pay for it.

If the debt burden is too much, you will stop the complaining and figure out a way to get a job, pay your debt and try to become good enough that one of this places you keep talking about give you a chance to work for them.

Also, I don't think the job market is as bad as you paint it. Good people always find jobs. As I posted before regarding your job hunt, either you are aiming too high in your job search or you are bombing the interview for some hidden reason (you will need feedback), or you are not that good or as good as you think you are (which is even worse) and you need to find out how to cover those shortcomings.

I'm sorry if I'm too blunt again.

100% correct!


Ilya,

I find it weird (to say the least) to advertise all your problems on a public forum. It would be ok to ask for an advice about a program/company. The responses can be a factor from a bigger decision.

However asking repeatedly "What do I do?" will lead nowhere. You should know yourself, analyze your status, use all inputs, take a decision and stick with it. Re-read Alain's response a couple of times, go back and ask yourself simple questions:
"Where do I want to be in 5 years?"
"What am I good at?"
"What am I missing to get there?"
...

 

[Sanket Patel]

Touché



text text text

 

[IlyaKEightSix]

The problem being is that what I thought I was always good at, I'm realizing that while I may be "good" at it, I'm not phenomenal at it. In short, wherever I go next, I'll need a mentor who has experience, and is willing to be a Gordon Gekko to my...Jake Moore.

In other news though, for whoever follows my blog, I did happen to recently get introduced to yet another headhunter, who told me "if not for the fact that a phenomenal quant recommended you to me, I wouldn't have spoken to you. In the same vein, this is how I will get you your job. By personally putting you on the spot in front of firms and saying 'talk to this kid.'"

So right now, it seems I'm going to be rejecting Stony Brook in favor of hopefully, my first real decent NYC opportunity. That, and I have yet to see what Lehigh does. If they offer me a supported PhD (I'm applying back to my old department), I'll have more to think about.

The most disappointing thing about that is that my favorite Rutgers professor wanted for me to so badly get into Stony Brook--I did, but I more or less can't attend.

And I did read that WSJ article about that doctor with half a mil in debts. Suffice to say, I think there's a ton of things wrong with the fact that there are so many profiteers with education, when an education is the only way for someone who is out of the money to get into the money, and those still seeking an education (aka the dreamers) don't have much of a way of differentiating between the good and the garbage.

 

[Joy Pathak]

I am glad to hear about the good news regarding the headhunter. I hope it works out for you.

 

[Sanket Patel]

Honestly, Illya, I too hope that things work out for you, hopefully sooner than later. Just keep in mind what Alain and Stefan said: don't sit there and lament over your own situation - you're wasting time your own time doing so, when instead you could be looking for a job, working on your cover letter, perfecting some skill, etc. Instead of writing these massive posts detailing your predicament, go study humanities and write poetry; it'd be a better use of your time.

If you haven't already done so, read the Crack and Joshi books along with P&D's career guide cover to cover. While it's good to be well versed in various topics, pick something that interests you and study it, research it, and do it day and night. This will set you apart from the next guy.

Lastly, I'm pretty sure majority of QN members would be more than happy to chime in with their two cents if you have specific questions but you've got to stop with these open ended 'what should I do" questions.

If working on Wall Street is what you truly want, then just keep at it. As Gordon Gekko said, "Give me guys that are poor, smart, hungry - and no feelings. You win a few, you lose a few, but you keep on fighting."

 

[Osen]

Dude, ten years past, they are still the same. Just got the Ph.D. admission from SBU in QF track ,not paying anything at all....

But I decided to accept this offer, since I have a huge interested in this.

Plus, I dont know what things look like in your time then, but for now, if you are a US citizen, you got a lot of fellowships to apply for.