Will I be able to get entry-level quant interviews?

[d_beauch]

Hello all,

I am an upcoming MASc graduate in electrical engineering at the University of Toronto (ranked #1 for engineering in Canada). My undergrad GPA is a 3.0, but my graduate GPA is currently a 3.5. My research involves designing a controller to stabilize a set of nonlinearly coupled hyperbolic partial differential equations. I am using MATLAB to simulate such a system. Therefore, I believe my research is highly quantitative in nature. I already have a paper accepted for presentation to a major control systems conference, so I am a highly motivated student. Do you think these credentials will qualify me to at least get some interviews for entry-level positons? If not, I will apply to engineering jobs instead, but a quant is something that sounds extremely interesting to me.

Best regards,
Daniel

 

[IntoDarkness]

we got some ee master grad onboard, guess u can

 

[alain]

Hello all,

I am an upcoming MASc graduate in electrical engineering at the University of Toronto (ranked #1 for engineering in Canada). My undergrad GPA is a 3.0, but my graduate GPA is currently a 3.5. My research involves designing a controller to stabilize a set of nonlinearly coupled hyperbolic partial differential equations. I am using MATLAB to simulate such a system. Therefore, I believe my research is highly quantitative in nature. I already have a paper accepted for presentation to a major control systems conference, so I am a highly motivated student. Do you think these credentials will qualify me to at least get some interviews for entry-level positons? If not, I will apply to engineering jobs instead, but a quant is something that sounds extremely interesting to me.

Best regards,
Daniel

Let's say we say "No, that won't qualify you for interviews. Don't even try it.". Would you still try to get interviews? Will our opinions stop you?

 

[d_beauch]

Let's say we say "No, that won't qualify you for interviews. Don't even try it.". Would you still try to get interviews? Will our opinions stop you?

Depends, if everyone is saying that, then maybe. This seems like a community of people very well informed about the career of a quant. Personally, I don't have a clue what my chances are, or what I'm up against. I would at least like to get a general idea of whether or not I'd be able to get interviews before I start preparing for them. What's your opinion?

 

[alain]

Depends, if everyone is saying that, then maybe. This seems like a community of people very well informed about the career of a quant. Personally, I don't have a clue what my chances are, or what I'm up against. I would at least like to get a general idea of whether or not I'd be able to get interviews before I start preparing for them. What's your opinion?

Depends? let the people in HR shut you down or in the interview. Who cares what this forum says. What's the most you can lose? Time?

 

[d_beauch]

Depends? let the people in HR shut you down or in the interview. Who cares what this forum says. What's the most you can lose? Time?

I'll give it a shot then! Thanks.

 

[MRoss]

Strongly agree with Alain.

Also, why is your GPA on your resume?

 

[d_beauch]

Should it not be? I heard to list it if it's at least 3.0 or you risk them assuming it's lower. Maybe since I have an MASc I shouldn't list it?

 

[Ken Abbott]

Daniel, your EE background may actually put you at an advantage. I've heard senior managers say they don't want MFEs and would prefer engineering students. Your biggest challenge will be convincing your interviewer that your interest in finance is genuine. Make sure your story is convincing.

 

[Daniel Duffy]

EE graduates tend to be good programmers as well for some reason IMO.

 

[d_beauch]

Thanks for the replies guys. My biggest concern right now is my GPA. Is it high enough? Should I leave it on my resume?

 

[MRoss]

Ellen Reeves is THE career coach of QN and she states explicitly in her book to not write your GPA...even when it is extremely high.

FYI in all of my interviews GPA never came up.

 

[ygmwy]

Should it not be? I heard to list it if it's at least 3.0 or you risk them assuming it's lower. Maybe since I have an MASc I shouldn't list it?

That's undergrad advice. I agree with Ellen Reeves. Don't put your gpa on your resume. I know employers that are biased against 4.0's because they tend to be Chinese humanoid robots with no personality, creativity, or ability to do anything other than take tests (and occasionally cheat on them).

Also, EE majors have an advantage as Ken said in many cases. Quants tend to use them as code monkeys in entry level because of their lack of finance knowledge, but they have a far reaching potential. The trick is to show them how dedicated you are to finance. That means studying stuff on your own, and impressing them with your independent study.

 

[Ken Abbott]

I know employers that are biased against 4.0's because they tend to be Chinese humanoid robots with no personality, creativity, or ability to do anything other than take tests (and occasionally cheat on them).

@ygmwy, I've been thinking about your post here for a few days. I think it's a bit harsh.

I have worked with many, many East Asian students and employees. Some have language challenges, with which they will have to deal to maximize their potential. For that reason, they may be less communicative than some others. Beyond that, they're just people. As intellectuals, some may be on the quiet side, but I have found them warm and affable. To characterize them as "humanoid robots" is over-the-top and borders on racist, IMO.

 

[ygmwy]

@Ken Abbott This is a topic which I feel very close to, and should be addressed.

Perhaps that example was a bit extreme. I was trying to make a point about gpa. However, the divide between the Chinese quant culture and the rest of the quant culture is something that exists and something that I encounter everyday. Many of these "humanoid robots" are friends of mine, and are very smart. In fact, not all are Chinese. They even have really great personalities once you get to know them. But I have my pick of who I would want to work with if we had a tough assignment, and there is no correlation better gpa and reliability in my opinion. Not saying the are no Chinese students that I would want to work with, nor do I want to work with all American students. There are exceptions on both sides. But it's true that in general, both sides have something to learn from the other, and Chinese students mostly have to learn a new culture of education. Then again, this applies to all students that grew up in a culture drastically different from Western culture. That's why we have Western culture classes for them.

In China, education is extremely teacher centric, and participation and cooperation is discouraged. The teacher is always right. This is good in a sense, but this is the kind of culture that needs to be reexamined upon coming to work in an American environment. Most do overcome this eventually.

Again, not trying to be racist, but as you have acknowledged, an employer might want someone who is commutative and has a can do attitude. Particularly if they expect some leadership/initiative to be taken in his or her projects. That happens less at a gigantic bank than at small teams at hedge funds. Sure beyond their difficulties, they are people. But there is a difference between being a good person and being a good fit. And that is what this post was about--not people's personalities. And that is why I made the point about the gpa. Really, I'm just trying to say that while it is important, employers may overlook it in certain circumstances.

 

[IntoDarkness]

lots of foreign born chinese in my place, some even rose to top, seems not an issue

 

[Daniel Duffy]

@Ken Abbott This is a topic which I feel very close to, and should be addressed.

Perhaps that example was a bit extreme. I was trying to make a point about gpa. However, the divide between the Chinese quant culture and the rest of the quant culture is something that exists and something that I encounter everyday. Many of these "humanoid robots" are friends of mine, and are very smart. In fact, not all are Chinese. They even have really great personalities once you get to know them. But I have my pick of who I would want to work with if we had a tough assignment, and there is no correlation better gpa and reliability in my opinion. Not saying the are no Chinese students that I would want to work with, nor do I want to work with all American students. There are exceptions on both sides. But it's true that in general, both sides have something to learn from the other, and Chinese students mostly have to learn a new culture of education. Then again, this applies to all students that grew up in a culture drastically different from Western culture. That's why we have Western culture classes for them.

In China, education is extremely teacher centric, and participation and cooperation is discouraged. The teacher is always right. This is good in a sense, but this is the kind of culture that needs to be reexamined upon coming to work in an American environment. Most do overcome this eventually.

Again, not trying to be racist, but as you have acknowledged, an employer might want someone who is commutative and has a can do attitude. Particularly if they expect some leadership/initiative to be taken in his or her projects. That happens less at a gigantic bank than at small teams at hedge funds. Sure beyond their difficulties, they are people. But there is a difference between being a good person and being a good fit. And that is what this post was about--not people's personalities. And that is why I made the point about the gpa. Really, I'm just trying to say that while it is important, employers may overlook it in certain circumstances.

I find my Chinese students to be _very_ hard workers and always polite and cheerful.

Sometimes the teacher is alway right (I never question my judo and jiu-jitsu sensei). You need to understand the culture of learning.

We are living in Gen Y when everyone has an opinion and we all have to listen to it, even if it is baloney :D

 

[ygmwy]

Didn't want this to become a discussion about race. Obviously the stereotype doesn't always apply (in fact, usually it doesn't). But I still stand by what I said about employees and gpa. Sorry if it touched a sensitive spot, but maybe I should have just said "humanoid robots" and left out the word Chinese. I was alluding to a stereotype which I was trying to acknowledge (not agree or disagree with). I am Chinese myself, so I didn't mean any offense. In fact, it's a compliment when used among my friends. Is be happy to continue the culture discussion in another page, but let's get back on topic for now.

 

[rajanS]

if you think you can compete with an ee background when Others have an mfe. The learning curve is too steep. They don't even touch the same math as mfes do

2nd you will probably lose against ppl who have both ee and mfe in their background

 

[ygmwy]

I have known many EE's rise to the top in financial engineering. Including my current boss. No formal financial schooling. All finance is learned in the job. To underestimate them is a mistake.

Not that all EE's Reach that potential, but enough do that I can safely say there is on average one EE on every serious quant team. They tend to break in at entry level easier too with their programming skills. (Where demand is rising, and too many quant students fresh out of school think programming is beneath them.)

Plus, I used to do recruiting for the field. I saw the resumes and the hires. EE was the second most common major we hired. Just my experience.

Oh and by the way, @rajanS, if you think that the math you learned in school is what is used in the field, then I would say "go get a job." You will realize that neither the math taught at EE programs nor the math taught at MFE programs is really used as they are in practice. EEs have the critical thinking skills to pick it up quickly and think of it from a purely mathematical angle while quants sometimes get stuck with the unreasonable assumptions they learned in class to make calculations and theory easier. Your comment kind of shows just how inexperienced you are with quant in practice. Just my opinion...

 

[rajanS]

I have some statements and i will end it here.

First,
what makes you think quants are just mathematicians? and i dont' understand what unreasonable assumptions you are talking about that we learned in class? can you name 1 unreasonable assumption before justifying this statement? as a matter of fact...i've taken a class with ken abbot in risk management. I am assuming he has given us the work during class that is being done in the field.

second,
I don't understand why you are attacking me indirectly? I merely stated that knowing financial engineering through school is needed. Its just too much to learn on your own.
I've taken lots of course work in EE. I have done 3 years of mechanical engineering in undergrad. It was just not my passion. I got bored so i switched to operations research. From there I went to financial engineering. Also, many teachers from the program are practioners and this is exactly what they do in the field. Wouldn't you rather learn from them first before entering in the field. Make connections etc?

so what kind of math is used in the field if you don't mind me asking?

Heck, the op didn't even say what field he wants to work in. He said quant. That could mean anything.

Third,
since you were a recruiter, perhaps you can pass my resume around? Im not a financial engineer yet...