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2016 QuantNet Rankings of Financial Engineering (MFE) Programs

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Cricket Freak

Well-Known Member
C++
Boston in top ten is a bit surprising...Can see no big banks, not even a single one on their own webpage in their "employment stats"
 

MRoss

Well-Known Member
I'll chime in here for my annual post.

Within America, so long as employment rates are high, school name should mean NOTHING.

Let's replace the school names with "School A", "School B", "School C", etc. Baruch has insane placement rates, and some of the best professors in the industry.

> Low tuition
> You WILL get hired at an average of above average salary

What more do you want? Isn't this a technical program where the goal is to get out into the industry and get a job?

And to the fellow who said "well, ivy league students tend to move up more often", this is hogswash. No one in any bank or fund ever promoted one fellow over the next because of his alma mater's name. Ridiculous.
 

RedL

Member
This makes it very clear for me. From name recognition standpoint, you are probably right.

Now if you are talking about getting a job in the US, that could be a different story.
NOT AT ALL.

Berkeley and Princeton MFE grads are the most sought-after grads by top firms. Grads of both prestigious schools also enjoy the highest average starting salary offers. They're also the two most selective MFE programs out there.
Placement Reports, MFE Program, Berkeley-Haas

Not saying the other programs aren't good. All the top 10 or 15 ranked MFE programs are (perhaps except the Baruch program which is being offered by a tier-3 school, which obviously isn't a prestigious school to begin with, so it doesn't offer good cost benefits for international students.)
 

mfecool

Member
NOT AT ALL.
Not saying the other programs aren't good. All the top 10 or 15 ranked MFE programs are (perhaps except the Baruch program which is being offered by a tier-3 school, which obviously isn't a prestigious school to begin with, so it doesn't offer good cost benefits for international students.)
Wrong in two ways: in the big banks, only students from Baruch, CMU, Columbia MFE, Berkeley, NYU Math Fin, and less from Cornell and Chicago are in the quant programs. Other programs are an exception, with maybe one student in a place or other.

For Baruch, international students like me come because we get very good desk quant jobs in New York. It is a great investment if you know you want to stay in US before maybe going back to your country. From the alumni I met, most of them stay in New York for the long time, which is what I want to do as well.

The placement numbers for Baruch MFE:
Employment Statistics
Employment report: http://mfe.baruch.cuny.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/2013-2015_Baruch_MFE_Employment_Report.pdf
 

RedL

Member
Wrong in two ways: in the big banks, only students from Baruch, CMU, Columbia MFE, Berkeley, NYU Math Fin, and less from Cornell and Chicago are in the quant programs. Other programs are an exception, with maybe one student in a place or other.

For Baruch, international students like me come because we get very good desk quant jobs in New York. It is a great investment if you know you want to stay in US before maybe going back to your country. From the alumni I met, most of them stay in New York for the long time, which is what I want to do as well.

The placement numbers for Baruch MFE:
Employment Statistics
Employment report: http://mfe.baruch.cuny.edu/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/2013-2015_Baruch_MFE_Employment_Report.pdf
How was my post incorrect?

As for the data set you shared from the Baruch program, I think you'd agree with me that is nowhere near as impressive as the Berkeley/Princeton program, which was exactly what I was trying to say. For MFE, there's a significant difference that separates between Berkeley/Princeton and Baruch. If you're an international student from say, France or Australia, it would be kind of stupid to go to Baruch when you also have been accepted to Berkeley/Princeton, given financial aspects are not a concern for you.
 

mfecool

Member
How was my post incorrect?

Berkeley and Princeton MFE grads are the most sought-after grads by top firms. Grads of both prestigious schools also enjoy the highest average starting salary offers. They're also the two most selective MFE programs out there.
How do you know Berkeley and Princeton MFE grads are the most sought-after grads by top firms? To say this, you need data that is almost not possible to have.

Princeton is the most selective program, Berkeley is not. Baruch has a lower acceptance rate.

Not saying the other programs aren't good. All the top 10 or 15 ranked MFE programs are (perhaps except the Baruch program which is being offered by a tier-3 school, which obviously isn't a prestigious school to begin with, so it doesn't offer good cost benefits for international students.)
There is a BIG difference being at the top 6 or 7 programs, or at the rest.

The cost benefits for the Baruch international students are very good. The reputation of the program and the alumni network are great career advantages.

As for the data set you shared from the Baruch program, I think you'd agree with me that is nowhere near as impressive as the Berkeley/Princeton program, which was exactly what I was trying to say. For MFE, there's a significant difference that separates between Berkeley/Princeton and Baruch. If you're an international student from say, France or Australia, it would be kind of stupid to go to Baruch when you also have been accepted to Berkeley/Princeton, given financial aspects are not a concern for you.
I would like to see data from all the programs. Baruch, Berkeley, CMU have that data, Princeton does not post much but has something. Do you know of any others?

The Berkeley numbers and the Baruch numbers for starting salaries are very similar: 107,000 average and 100,000 median salary for Berkeley, 105,000 average and 100,000 median salary for Baruch. Is that "nowhere near as impressive"? When I applied CMU posted numbers lower then Baruch, but I cannot find them know.

Take it easy.
 

quantquanta

Active Member
How was my post incorrect?

As for the data set you shared from the Baruch program, I think you'd agree with me that is nowhere near as impressive as the Berkeley/Princeton program, which was exactly what I was trying to say. For MFE, there's a significant difference that separates between Berkeley/Princeton and Baruch. If you're an international student from say, France or Australia, it would be kind of stupid to go to Baruch when you also have been accepted to Berkeley/Princeton, given financial aspects are not a concern for you.
Baruche's mfe program has the best marketing by far
 

quantquanta

Active Member
I always thought Berkeley MFE has the best marketing :)
haha i don't know much about berkley. but I meant it in a good way. You prob don't know this, but not every director is marketing the hell out of his program and his students like Dan. At my school, the director doesn't know any of our names or what we do for internships or jobs.
 

IntoDarkness

Well-Known Member
haha i don't know much about berkley. but I meant it in a good way. You prob don't know this, but not every director is marketing the hell out of his program and his students like Dan. At my school, the director doesn't know any of our names or what we do for internships or jobs.
sounds like the program i have experience with...
 

RedL

Member
How do you know Berkeley and Princeton MFE grads are the most sought-after grads by top firms? To say this, you need data that is almost not possible to have.
I asked how was my post/statement incorrect and you gave me this answer? That's not a good answer.
For you to disprove any claim made by others (me, in this case), you should have held the data with your hands first so those information could save your argument. Otherwise, try not to say, "you're wrong", to someone when you don't have any evidence to support your counter-argument either, granted I don't have data of my own.


Princeton is the most selective program, Berkeley is not. Baruch has a lower acceptance rate.
So, you think admission rate could be the ONLY basis of admission selectivity? That is WRONG. The Berkeley program is quite selective. I would venture that those people who got into Baruch don't have the necessary stats to be even eligible to apply to Berkeley, in the first place. The self-selection nature of Berkeley's applicant pool is what drags its admit rate. But Berkeley's applicants have better profile and there aren't that many such applicants, to begin with.

The cost benefits for the Baruch international students are very good. The reputation of the program and the alumni network are great career advantages.
ONLY BARUCH PEOPLE WOULD CLAIM THAT.
However, in the real world, no one would go for Baruch over Berkeley/Princeton. That would be very, very stupid to do. Baruch is just a tier 3 school. It doesn't have any name recognition outside of NY in a slightest. As someone who grew up in France, I know for a fact that no elite French student, in general, or MFE aspirant, in specific, would rather be at Baruch than at Berkeley/Princeton. (Berkeley vs Princeton would have a very long debate though, I'm sure, because they're neck-and-neck.) Maybe Baruch gets some respect in NY. But it's the best that it can get. Because outside of NY, no one cares about a degree from Baruch. Seriously.

Anyway, I know for a fact that many Baruch people on this message board do have this reputation to be overly defensive of their school, and I don't have time to argue with Baruch people who think irrationally. So, consider this as my last post re about the Berkeley/Princeton vs Baruch argument -- it just gives me a weird feeling. It's like hearing someone arguing his Kia car is as good as his neighbor's Porsche.
 
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mfecool

Member
haha i don't know much about berkley. but I meant it in a good way. You prob don't know this, but not every director is marketing the hell out of his program and his students like Dan. At my school, the director doesn't know any of our names or what we do for internships or jobs.
Dan is great, sure but I like talking to Jim Gatheral even more. I went to "office hours" in a pub around Baruch almost after every Market Microstructure class with Jim and his war stories are great. The man did everything!
 

RedL

Member
mfecool. That would be fine with me. I just dislike it when some Baruch students would fight with other people to make it appear Baruch is such a nice school. It is getting so annoying. So, thank you for deciding to stop on pimping Baruch. You'd be doing a good service to your alma mater school. Seriously.
 

mfecool

Member
mfecool. That would be fine with me. I just dislike it when some Baruch students would fight with other people to make it appear Baruch is such a nice school. It is getting so annoying. So, thank you for deciding to stop on pimping Baruch. You'd be doing a good service to your alma mater school. Seriously.
You just could not stop, right?

Let people make their own decisions. You are doing a bad service to your alma mater, including the one from France.
 

RedL

Member
You just could not stop, right?

Let people make their own decisions. You are doing a bad service to your alma mater, including the one from France.
Now you're insulting me. Show some manners, Baruch guy. Shows the kind of breeding you have.
 
The Berkeley numbers and the Baruch numbers for starting salaries are very similar: 107,000 average and 100,000 median salary for Berkeley, 105,000 average and 100,000 median salary for Baruch. Is that "nowhere near as impressive"? When I applied CMU posted numbers lower then Baruch, but I cannot find them know.
That's an interesting observation. Baruch's base salaries have been steadily increasing over the years, where as Berkeley's have not moved much.

On another note - how does Berkeley report expected bonuses? Not many programs seem to do this. Is it based on historic bonus figures for graduates from the program in the same company?
 

Cricket Freak

Well-Known Member
C++
Can anybody comment on Chicago's program? Seems students are barred from using career services of Booth Business school. Department of Mathematics does not do a good job of providing placement assistance to students. Is the entire program simply a cash cow? Pretty bad reviews....dont know how this program has landed into top ten on QN rankings....Very limited information on their website....no mention of companies that recruit students...nothing..
 

JLevin

Active Member
The program isn't part of Booth, so they don't use Booth career services. That goes for anyone at Chicago who isn't in Booth. There's a career services team within the Math Department for the MSFM program. They're constantly trying to improve (I believe they are), albeit some problems in the past. All programs are cash cows. Reviews aren't everything; think about the location, name and job potential. A huge amount of companies recruit Chicago; most job advertisements are for bachelors, masters or PhDs (no singling out of level of study).

It landed in the top ten because the stats put it there.

J
 
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