America's century is over

[bigbadwolf]

Every morning Bigbadwolf starts with a socialist newspaper (socialist.org??? something like that, he posted an article once from that website) looking for any article which is anti-American/capitalist. Then he would go on to search for the remotest of articles on some Russian newspaper decrying America and capitalism and then would post it right away on QN. Well Mr. Wolf if you are in US you are eating from it's plate and it's food, so don't talk Russian.

As someone said earlier this century is not over for America, it has re-emerged in China and India and is flourishing. So true. If your socialism was that great China and India would not have shun it after 50 years of experimentation. Being American is no longer a matter of staying within it's boundary but adopting it's message of capitalism and freedom.

WTF are you jabbering about now? It is embarrassing to have to read your unmitigated tripe on QN. Do you really think the Chinese model is based on the American one? Throw away your Thomas Friedman and Ayn Rand and try to get a real education. And by the way, what exactly is "anti-American?" What is this? A witch hunt? A kangaroo court? My stance on much of what I write and post is shared by the likes of Ron Paul, Paul Craig Roberts, Pat Buchanan. Are they anti-American as well? What is this knee-jerk enthusiasm that is required for whatever the US government does? Are we living in Orwell's Oceania?

 

[euroazn]

This is getting inane. Not only is nobody here going to change his opinion, the same facts (or at least genre of facts) are being reused.

 

[JDMe]

WTF are you jabbering about now? It is embarrassing to have to read your unmitigated tripe on QN. Do you really think the Chinese model is based on the American one? Throw away your Thomas Friedman and Ayn Rand and try to get a real education. And by the way, what exactly is "anti-American?" What is this? A witch hunt? A kangaroo court? My stance on much of what I write and post is shared by the likes of Ron Paul, Paul Craig Roberts, Pat Buchanan. Are they anti-American as well? What is this knee-jerk enthusiasm that is required for whatever the US government does? Are we living in Orwell's Oceania?

What do you think: Chinese and Indian model are Russian? Are you living in some kind of hole where you only have access to socialist.org, QN and some Russian newspaper?

Go to Russian, be anti-Russian and then you will realize what witch hunt is. Russians will make sure that you do not see the light of day for years to come. It's only US where people first immigrate, live off it's resources and act anti-American. And these anti-American bunch includes people like you who vent their God knows what anger tacitly and terrorists who killed 3000 people openly on 9/11.

 

[helpteye]

What do you think: Chinese and Indian model are Russian? Are you living in some kind of hole where you only have access to socialist.org, QN and some Russian newspaper?

Go to Russian, be anti-Russian and then you will realize what witch hunt is. Russians will make sure that you do not see the light of day for years to come. It's only US where people first immigrate, live off it's resources and act anti-American. And these anti-American bunch includes people like you who vent their God knows what anger tacitly and terrorists who killed 3000 people openly on 9/11.

I am not too interested in joining what appears to be more of an argument than an intellectual debate, but I must mention that JDME seems confused about what the american model is. China is the largest communist country in the world. Americans call communism evil, yet you say china's model is the same as america's?

 

[TraderJoe]

Why is everyone debating USA vs. Europe? Anyone who has done MBA knows fully well that USA and European economies are all screwed up. The only country which matters is China. China is the only hope of saving the world from a global recession. In another 10 years, the economies of USA and Europe will be irrelevant. China will overtake both of them. In another 20 years, no one will even compare USA or European economies with the Chinese economy.

 

[bigbadwolf]

What do you think: Chinese and Indian model are Russian? Are you living in some kind of hole where you only have access to socialist.org, QN and some Russian newspaper?

Go to Russian, be anti-Russian and then you will realize what witch hunt is. Russians will make sure that you do not see the light of day for years to come. It's only US where people first immigrate, live off it's resources and act anti-American. And these anti-American bunch includes people like you who vent their God knows what anger tacitly and terrorists who killed 3000 people openly on 9/11.

You don't know what you're talking about and you're dragging the discussion -- such as it is -- to new lows. First of all, there is no "anger." There are legitimate questions about US decline and a deepening social and economic crisis. So save your dishonest and contemptible tricks of conflating my "anger" with terrorism for morons.

You seem to have no idea of what Russia is like, and what kind of discussion or criticism they allow.

You seem to have no idea of what the Chinese model is, and you're employing another dishonest trick of making the choice between the "American model" (whatever that is in your understanding) and the "Russian model" (whatever that is).

As for migration -- sure. Millions of Mexicans and Third-Worlders are willing to slip across the borders and be a source of cheap labor for big capital, which has an insatiable appetite for them. First-Worlders are more chary about the US. And I note an increasing number of Americans are opting -- if they can find alternatives -- to jettison their US citizenship altogether. And I don't blame them as there isn't much of a social contract these days.

Now I suggest you go back to Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and Glenn Beck, since the style and content of your "arguments," along with every intellectually dishonest trick in the book and trying to besmirch an adversary, seems to have been picked up from there.

---------- Post added at 05:26 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:24 AM ----------

I am not too interested in joining what appears to be more of an argument than an intellectual debate, but I must mention that JDME seems confused about what the american model is. China is the largest communist country in the world. Americans call communism evil, yet you say china's model is the same as america's?

He doesn't have the foggiest idea of what he's jabbering on about. And since, truth be told, he has no arguments worth the name, his only recourse is to become personal, and equate criticism with terrorism. Pathetic.

---------- Post added at 05:47 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:26 AM ----------

Why is everyone debating USA vs. Europe? Anyone who has done MBA knows fully well that USA and European economies are all screwed up. The only country which matters is China. China is the only hope of saving the world from a global recession. In another 10 years, the economies of USA and Europe will be irrelevant. China will overtake both of them. In another 20 years, no one will even compare USA or European economies with the Chinese economy.

It's not that straighforward. Economic growth doesn't occur in a geopolitical vacuum. Military might is a key element in the equation and has been for centuries. The US invasion of the Middle East isn't to bring democracy to the benighted natives but to make sure that key energy reserves remain in American control. In like vein, recent US saber rattling in East Asia is a warning to China, and letting China know, that the US considers the area its sphere of influence. US multinationals operate in a world protected for them by US military might (that's what "spreading capitalism and democracy" really mean). Major General Smedley Butler put it aptly:

I spent thirty-three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912 (where have I heard that name before?). I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

At present no power can challenge US military might. And as rising powers threaten US hegemony, the US has taken off its kid gloves and is increasingly making use of its military power, on which it spends more than most of the rest of the world combined.

 

[JDMe]

Apparently here there are 2 sides. American and anti-American. I am going to go with the winner, the US, Japan, Europe (currently having some cough symptoms). You guys can stay on the side of Mexico, Russia, Iran, N. Korea, Nigeria, Yemen, etc and hope that in left 50 years of your life they become good enough to provide you as good a living standard as you are enjoying in US or at least dream of.

By the way Mr. Wolf you are quoting people from QN as if they are some Nobel Laureate. Is that what your source of education and intellectual enlightenment is? If you read real books based on science and research and not some propaganda, you will cite better references to make your point.

 

[euroazn]

Um...JD I think you are confusing something... the US is great friends with Mexico and the Soviet Union collapsed a little under two decades ago.

Nevertheless, Wolf, while I'm sure history repeats itself, I can't imagine not having at least a half century of American "Dominance" left before power shifts back to the Middle Earth (i.e China)

 

[bigbadwolf]

Nevertheless, Wolf, while I'm sure history repeats itself, I can't imagine not having at least a half century of American "Dominance" left before power shifts back to the Middle Earth (i.e China)

It's the trajectory of US decline that interests me. If history is any guide, US decline is inevitable. What is in question -- one for which I don't have definitive answers -- is the nature of the decline. Will it be a gradual loss of influence, resources, and markets? Or will it be precipitous, an implosion, as US policymakers play military brinkmanship and keep piling up expenditure while the wherewithal to pay for it erodes?

Another interesting question: What is the USA today? A group of multinationals and financial firms, using the US national security state to create a global structure in which they can do business, while the domestic population of the US goes to the dogs? Essays like this at Slate.com eerily remind one of Rome in the third and fourth centuries A.D.

When even conservatives like Paul Craig Roberts are writing like this, one suspects things are seriously awry:

US military spending reflects the unaffordable and unattainable crazed neoconservative goal of US Empire and world hegemony. What fool in Washington thinks that China is going to finance US hegemony over China?

Without a revolution, Americans are history.

 

[euroazn]

Interest is one thing, but you have an unhealthy fascination with it. It's one thing to look quietly and process your thoughts, its another to encourage the spread of doomsday theories.

The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.

 

[DominiConnor]

So the advantages should go to Wall Street as far as jobs in finance are concerned?

Yes.
Actually that applies to pretty much all industries, not just finance.
But I do not see that as guaranteed in the future...

Obama's allegiance to unions blue collar racism dovetails with the lunacy of tea party types. The dumb policies that leads to are more damaging for the USA than perhaps any other country. It need to import bright foreign young people far more than it needs to import foreign oil.

 

[JDMe]

It's the trajectory of US decline that interests me. If history is any guide, US decline is inevitable. What is in question -- one for which I don't have definitive answers -- is the nature of the decline. Will it be a gradual loss of influence, resources, and markets? Or will it be precipitous, an implosion, as US policymakers play military brinkmanship and keep piling up expenditure while the wherewithal to pay for it erodes?

Another interesting question: What is the USA today? A group of multinationals and financial firms, using the US national security state to create a global structure in which they can do business, while the domestic population of the US goes to the dogs? Essays like this at Slate.com eerily remind one of Rome in the third and fourth centuries A.D.

When even conservatives like Paul Craig Roberts are writing like this, one suspects things are seriously awry:

.

But, Mr. Wolf did you already leave US to start a new life in East Europe, Iran or Africa?

 

[euroazn]

This is a good point - you are always free to leave.

 

[bigbadwolf]

This is a good point - you are always free to leave.

If, like me, you have an EU passport, it's not a problem. An increasing number of Americans are exploring the possibilities of life in another country. This book by Mark Ehrman was written four years ago and may shed some insight on how to leave if you're stuck with a US passport. From the review by Publisher's Weekly:

Taking a decidedly pessimistic view of the current American moment, Ehrman's well-designed, all-encompassing guidebook provides detailed instructions for fleeing "before America comes crashing down upon you." Ehrman includes a large number of first-person stories from folks who did just that, starting new lives in China, Australia, Slovakia and Israel, among other destinations.

The problem is it's not easy to migrate to countries like Germany and Sweden.

There's another book along the same lines but I've forgotten the title. Rumor has it that interviews for American citizens wanting to renounce their American citizenship now take a year to schedule at the US embassy in London: it appears there's a long waiting list.

Postscript: Here is RT interviewing someone who did renounce US citizenship, and acquired Irish citizenship. Do note that the newscaster is mistakenly saying "7 million." Note that these are not necessarily my views: I am but dispassionately discussing US decline (real or imaginary). One thing that is said in the interview is thought-provoking: when there's no social contract between citizen and state, what then is the bond?

 

[JDMe]

The problem is it's not easy to migrate to countries like Germany and Sweden.

Why? They can't tolerate socialists?

And yes by the way there are 6 billion people on earth and if 1000 of them do not want to live in US who cares.

 

[bigbadwolf]

Why? They can't tolerate socialists?

Were you just born with a room-temperature IQ? I said I have EU citizenship -- this allows me to live and work anywhere in the EU. And since you're so profoundly ignorant, both Germany and Sweden are in the EU. In addition, Scandinavia -- which includes Sweden -- still has the most left-leaning governments in Europe.

In stupidity and ignorance, in addition to egregious bad manners, you take the cake. Andy should just boot you off the forum.

 

[euroazn]

Andy should just boot you off the forum.

Because that promotes free speech. And makes me look cool.

 

[Andy Nguyen]

Were you just born with a room-temperature IQ?
In stupidity and ignorance, in addition to egregious bad manners, you take the cake. Andy should just boot you off the forum.

I don't appreciate any personal attack going in my house so let's hope we will have more constructive discussion going forward.

This thread has going way off track and outlasts its usefulness. I'm going to close this.